This story, from the “Western Wisdom” blog, is a few years old. And sure, there’s nobody really famous in the story. But so what? I’m in a weird mood, and my e-mail inbox has become an endless source of amusement since we started this blog more than a year ago.
I’m not making any representations that this re-told conversation with a couple of PETA representatives ever actually happened.
Just that it’s entertaining.
And that it really should surprise no one.
Them: … I love my pets like I love my own children!
Me: What do you feed them?
Them: Mostly canned foods, like Alpo or Purina. They like the soft foods better than the dry, so that’s what I give them.Me: So you’re saying you feed your pets meat?
Them: I guess so, that’s what they like.Me: So then it’s okay to kill other animals for food?
Them: No, killing animals is cruel for any reason!Me: But you just said you feed meat to your pets.
Them: –silence–Me: It seems to me if you feed meat to your pets then you’re advocating the killing of animals for food.
Them: That’s different though!Me: How so? You already said that killing animals for any reason is cruel.
Them: Umm, uhh, well you see, uhh.. dogs and cats are omnivorous and need meat in their diet.Me: Actually most dogs and cats are carnivorous by nature and are forced omnivorous diets when domesticated, but you bring up a good point. Humans have always been omnivorous for all of recorded history, and you’re trying to force vegetarianism on people saying it’s ethical, while saying that it’s wrong to force vegetarianism on animals. Seems a little bit hypocritical don’t you think?
Them: It’s would be unethical to force animals to eat a diet un-natural to them!Me: Isn’t that exactly what you’re trying to force on people though?
Them: Well, yes, but…
There’s more at the original source, but you get the idea. I’m officially now offering a $100 bounty for a photograph of any prominent PETA-supporting celebrity pet owner (excuse me… “pet guardian“) buying his or her precious animal food that’s, well, made from animals.
Let’s have some fun.
Hat tip: Loyal Deceiver tipsters Gen & Brian
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http://www.gotfuturama.com/Multimedia/EpisodeSounds/2ACV15/06.mp3
From Futurama:
I would just like to take this opportunity to again challenge any PETA supporter to explain this kind of logical inconsistency in their movement. They won’t be able to, but watching them try amuses me.
Reminds me of a hypothetical conversation with a random ‘vegan’ I posted on a PETA article a few weeks ago:
Pets Eating Tasty Animals
BOOYAH! I’M THE GREATEST-
Wait whadaya mean that’s stupid?
Have they helped the poor in this country? (giving away fur coats to Africians does not count) When I see a food drive started by P.E.T.A then I might think twice…(Oh, who am I kidding I don’t give a rat’s a** what P.E.T.A. thinks.)
In China they cut out the middle man and eat the pets.
I’m Korean and I am constantly confronted by so-called enlightened vegetarians/vegans asking me if I enjoy eating dogs (I’ve never and neither have most Koreans because, contrary to popular opinion, we actually consider dogs to be pets). I usually tell them I don’t eat dog meat because the smell is overwhelming (the truth-I can’t walk by a restaurant serving dog meat without gagging). But, sometimes, whenever I’ve had enough of their “meat is evil” routine (and that’s often because I attend an ultra-liberal school), and I really want to get a rise out of them, I just smile and tell them “Don’t knock it ’til you’ve tried it.”
Does that make me a bad person?
That’s classic.
When I was working in the veterinary field, this wing nut PETArd almost killed her cat by putting it on a vegetarian diet. We very nearly had to have the cat taken away from her before she saw what harm she was doing. Point is, not giving a dog meat is bad, because they need it, but it will most certainly kill a cat. There are actually vegetarian foods for dogs, and we had a rep come in to try and push it on us. The doctor told her off and basically said that she and anyone that gave their carnivorous animal a vegetarian diet deserved to have that animal turn on them and eat them for lunch.
Anyhow, what are these people doing with pets anyway? I thought they were all about setting your helpless Chihuahua free so that it could get eaten alive by foxes.
True PETA activists are against the keeping of housepets. Apparently, it’s unnatural for humans to have companion animals (tell that to the cavemen).
Also, PETA wants to exterminate all pit bulls. What kind of animal rights activism is that?!
Eat this PETA!
An obligate or true carnivore is an animal that must eat meat in order to thrive.[2] … The domestic cat is a prime example of an obligate carnivore, as are all of the other felids.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore
Mich, that makes you an AWESOME person. *hugs*
BTW, isn’t PETA also anti-pet, anyway?
No Mich, that makes you a person with a sense of humor, and infinitely more intelligent than most PETA supporters.
Mich, of course that makes you a bad person…at least, as far as peta is concerned. But it might be better if you changed the argument completely and just accused them of being a racist by trying to slap a stereotype on you.
(If you think they’re lousy at arguing their own point, you ought to try to see them argue something they’re totally unprepared for.)
I like mich! But I wouldn’t hit it…yet
Mich, you are my hero for the day.
Some people are such idiots… I am a vegan and I do not condone the killing of animals in any way, it’s not like humans own animals. However, I doubt my snake would be too happy if I started giving him salad, so he gets live fishes to eat, I apologize to the cute fishes first, I feel terrible that they have to die, but you know, the snake is too important for me to risk his health.
My friends, however, are not vegans. I have eight best friends and all of them are complete meat eaters and I never try to change them. Sure, it is not their right to eat animals, the animals have the right to live, but I couldn’t live without my friends, so I’ll have to accept that hundreds of animals are sacrificed because my friends eat them.
There are vegans that are total hypocrites – Dogs eat meat and they would never hurt a dog, but they can totally harass a human for eating meat. The thing is, both cats and dogs can manage being vegans, my cats eat meat, however. No one would harass a dog for being a meat eater, why harass a human about it? Eating animals is a terrible thing, but you’re not gonna help anyone by harassing people.
I just make sure that I do not take part in the killing of any animal and I make sure that all products I buy are completely vegan and cruelty-free, but if I would harass humans over eating meat, I would be part of the cruelty. Cruelty against humans is OK as long as you don’t hurt animals? Preferably people would leave animals alone and leave humans alone as well.
Point is, you do not have the right to kill or eat animals, they do not belong to you, they live their own lives for their own reasons. But this doesn’t give anyone the right to abuse you anymore than people have the right to abuse a dog for eating meat. It would be great if more people could become vegans and maybe even start giving vegan food to their pets, but vegans making fun of or harassing non-vegans and non-vegans making fun of or harassing vegans isn’t gonna do any good!
This is great! I am in no behind PETA at all. Ingrid uses PETA to scam money from half of the world and her followers. Bet that! For a organization so against killing of animals, let PETA explain all of the animals they kill a year and how they dispose of them! IN DUMPSTERS!
PETA is a crock of people who love the attention they get by their stupidity.
“It would be great if more people could become vegans and maybe even start giving vegan food to their pets,”
Signe buddy – I am just gonna take a step back, shut my mouth for once, and let someone with more knowledge on the subject sort you out. Chronic, you wanna help me out here?
Happily, Scott F.
I spent five years in the veterinary field, mainly around the time this fu**ery about making your carnivorous pets vegan became popular, I have learned the following:
Putting your dog or cat on a vegan diet is seriously detrimental to their health. Dogs food companies have managed to come out with vegetarian dog food, and while a dog can deal with it, they are still being robbed of essential nutrition and will never be as healthy as their normal, meat eating counterparts. Furthermore, this is on specially formulated food. Giving your dog vegetables and pretending that they are going to live on that is plain idiotic. This is animal cruelty, plain and simple.
In fact, most veterinarians and breeders are going back to incorporating raw meat into your dog’s diet, especially if they are young. My Rhodesian Ridgeback used to get raw eggs, raw chicken wings (not cooked or chicken bones will splinter and hurt them), and ground beef with his meals when he was a pup.
A cat will die on a vegan diet, plain and simple. See my above post on that. Every veterinarian I have had this conversation with will tell you the same. Cats MUST have meat protein. If you are denying your feline meat, you are killing it. That is murder, my friend.
How else can I say this? VEGETARIAN DOGS AND CATS WILL SUFFER / DIE / HATE YOU AND HOPEFULLY BE TAKEN FROM YOU IF YOU DON’T GIVE THEM WHAT NATURE INTENDED.
That work, Scott F.?
mich, i think the dog meat trade is awful.. but just because someone is korean doesn’t mean i’d assume they eat it. people just go up to you and ask that? thats rude and i would never ask someone a question like that. ever! my last name sounds like hat in spanish (sombrero) and whenever i said my last name people always ask “YOU’RE MEXICAN?! but you’re so fair skinned!” its like no i’m italian. people are just stupid and have a lot of balls these days i guess lol
All my cats are on a high protein all peta member diet. Luckily since vegan types are always so small, and frail my cats can stalk and kill them on their own. It keeps us from spending a fortune in cat food, and saves our lawn since those damn vegans are always picking at our grass.
“Point is, you do not have the right to kill or eat animals”
Signe – so do carnivorous animals have the right to kill & eat other animals? Should we pass a law to stop them???
Gosh, Pasta, it makes me wish I lived in a more heavily PETA-populated area. Bet my cat could do very well on a similar diet. Can you ship a few out this way? Live, of course, so he can have the thrill of the hunt. We can haggle over the shipping and such.
Makes me sad that my dog died in May and is one less strain on the meat supply… proof enough for me animals need meat? He never got excited when I waved a carrot at him. Wished I still lived near L.A. so I could go scouting for a picture.
I enjoy the argument that human animals are not supposed to kill and eat animals but it is okay for other animals to eat animals (uhm unless you wish to put lions, tigers, eagles, etc. on a vegan diet in which case we better capture them all and put ‘em in a zoo where we can make sure they are getting a proper vegan fare)
Oh and who says plants don’t suffer? They communicate so why can’t they feel pain?
From what I’ve read vegan diets are healthier for cats and dogs than meat diets. And from my own experience, I know that vegan diets for humans are much healthier than eating meat. Of course no human or animal has the right to eat other animals, everyone owns themselves, it is not up to anyone to decide the fate of another living person, whether human or not.
As I said, my cats and my snake are on meat diets. It is not up to me to decide that cats and snakes are worth more than fish and shrimp – Of course all living creatures have an equal value. But if six fishes have to die every week to keep my snake alive and healthy, I’m OK with that. Well, I don’t think it’s nice, but I accept it as it is.
See, I can’t decide that a snake is worth more than six fishes, it would be idiotic to claim the right to decide the value of other living creatures. But what I’m saying is, my snake means a lot to me and as I don’t personally know the fishes, I will feed my snake six fishes a week. Not because it’s my right to kill fishes, but purely out of devotion to my snake.
See, I have the world’s cutest snake and he’s a meat eater. Now, no one would harass a snake over being a meat eater, so there’s no point to harass humans over it either. Humans don’t have the right to eat animals, so snakes shouldn’t have the right to eat animals either. But unfortunately there is no other choice but to feed animals to my snake.
As you know snakeys aren’t so into veganism as their human mommies and daddies might be. And who am I not to obey snakey baby? My snakey baby might be a bully deciding that he is better than fishes but he is still one awesome snakey and frankly I value him over any fishes in the world. Unfair? Yes, because snakes aren’t worth more than fishes. But my snake is my baby, so I’ll sacrifice for him (I don’t actually kill the fishes, he does that himself – luckily. He’s a cute little garter snake, he swims and catches little aquarium fish I buy him twice a week)
Um … yeah. You could let the snake die for your beliefs. Nature is cruel that way. Aren’t we part of it?
You don’t actually talk to these plants do you D? It’s okay if you do I’m just asking.
Signe, I think it is probably pointless to argue with you, but it has been proven:
a. Vegans are more prone to rickets and long term vitamin deficiencies. The key to a healthy human diet is balance. I know that my two years of a vegetarian diet left me a very sick girl with weak bones and a messed up neck carrying around an extra 15 lbs. I ate the “right things”. I hate to think what would have happened if I hadn’t. But this isn’t the point. What you eat or don’t eat is no one’s business but your own and you can suffer the consequences. It’s your life.
b. Non human animals like cats and dogs on vegan diets do not thrive or simply die. Cats especially. This IS the point. The cat we treated nearly didn’t make it because of an idiot that thought she was being ethical or moral, when she was doing exactly the opposite.
I am glad you aren’t feeding your cat a vegan diet or I would hope someone called the authorities on you. People that think they can just change nature in that way have no right to even be around animals. All they are doing is acting as though they have the right and power to dictate to all living things what they should or shouldn’t do. Animals have done quite well without people imposing their misguided beliefs on them and attempting to humanize them.
Putting any carnivorous animal on a vegan diet is the height of arrogance, stupidity, and neglect. If a person can’t handle the fact that certain animals require a meat based diet, they should not have animals at all.
Signe, you might want to read something other than propaganda. Ask a real veterinarian about vegan cats and they will laugh at you or have you investigated for animal cruelty.
Signe – learn some biology man, the intestinal tract of an omnivore (cats and dogs) are much shorter then herbovores. Plant material is tough to break down so herbovores stomachs and intestines are much longer and extensive. Feeding an omnivore a vegan diet will kill it because their digestive tract is not designed to break down and absorb plant matter.
oh and Pasta … so what if I do and maybe they talk to me and say I am pretty and special and that they don’t like bunnies but they like me and maybe I pet them while they sleep next to me and they happy and.. and..
http://www.animalintelligence.org/2007/10/15/does-plant-communication-imply-intelligence/
Vegan food is really good for humans, I know I used to get sick all the time when I wasn’t a vegan yet, I’ve been a vegan for some years now. And also lots of you here don’t seem intelligent enough to get the point that I DON’T GIVE MY ANIMALS VEGAN FOOD, I give them meat, because they like meat. I personally think it is wrong to kill animals for any reason, but since my cats and snake obviously like eating meat, I’m not gonna be in their way.
My turtle is a vegetarian, of course and my snake is of course a meat eater. Now, I HAVE read that cats do at least as good on a vegan diet, but if I ever would consider putting my cats on a vegan diet, I would extremely thoroughly research this subject and consult veterinarians, as I would never risk my animals’ health. Actually, since my parents have been responsible for feeding the cats for years, I trust that they know which brands the cats like and only buy them the kind of food they like, even if it’s made from stinky dead animals.
It would be idiotic, arrogant, disgusting and ridiculous for a person to just decide that they have the right to choose the life and fate of another living being. Animals and humans are worth equally much and it’s not up to anybody to decide that they aren’t. You wouldn’t want anyone to decide that they own you and can kill you whenever you like, so you shouldn’t do that to animals either.
However, I’m not gonna do anything stupid like feed my snake salad, because I feel sorry for the fishes. As I said, my affection and care for my pets goes before my respect for the animals that die to be their food. That might be a bit selfish, but it’s human. I have a bunch of best friends as well and they all eat meat, but I love them a lot anyway.
Sure, the best would be if all animals and humans could just live in peace and don’t bother each other, but the world doesn’t really look like that and I’m not gonna abandon people that I love because of what they eat and hundreds of animals might die each year because my best friends eat them, but I’m way too human to put animals I don’t know over friends that I love.
Don’t knock plant whisperers! I used to have a very affectionate Devil’s Ivy named Harold and . . . and . . . he died . . . and . . . *sniff* Rock on, D.
Luckily, most vegetarians have no muscle mass so they can’t force any of us meat eaters into becoming like them. I hate this whole ‘Cruelty’ free trend. I like my meat to suffer a little bit before I eat it. Makes it more tender. If it makes PETA cry, well, that makes it taste even better too!
Oh wait! I have the solution! Let’s just feed PETA members to our pets!
Relax D I’m just kiddin’ around! Wait D I’K KIDDING STOP!! HEL—- GAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
**nothing but plants left in room**
Whatever, it is just ridiculous to think you own animals or can decide their fate. Making fun of people for respecting animals’ rights is only childish. I’m still gonna let my pets, friends, cousins and whoever eat meat, I just don’t think it should be encouraged, unless you belong to a species (say snake) that couldn’t possibly live without meat.
And by the way, vegetarians have no muscle mass? Yeah right. I’m not a bodybuilder or anything, but I practice karate twice a week and I’m a vegan with a no-sugar no-gluten diet, works perfectly fine.
Where to start?
The law of pretty much every nation on the planet disagrees with you. Not to mention the laws of nature.
Animals can have “rights” as soon as they can fulfill obligations, or meet responsibilities. These things do go hand in hand, you know. Until then, animals don’t have rights for you, me, or anyone else to respect. Just a basic entitlement to our benevolence when it doesn’t conflict with our legitimate needs.
You’re a fool.
Even though I submitted the story, I’m fairly certain it’s a hypothetical conversation. PETA is hypocritical, yes, but they’re pretty consistent when it comes to who to boycott and Purina is at the top of that list. I boycott Nestle products for a whole other reason, but I don’t think a true PETA member would purchase Purina food products for their animal companion.
I just thought it was hilarious because it basically boils down to how these people think.
You’re completely ridiculous. You can’t actually believe you have the right to decide the fate of animals. They live their own lives and they are surely more respectable than you people who only make fun of people who actually treat other living beings with respect. Yeah, I’m not gonna turn people into vegans, others can do whatever they want, but it’s still not their right to kill animals.
You’re the fool.
There is a difference between treating animals with respect and completely removing yourself from the food chain out of some warped sense of guilt for being an omnivore by nature. It’s very arrogant, unrealistic, and foolish. We are not above being animals because we ourselves are animals, and it is natural for us to eat meat, just as it is natural for the dog to eat meat.
When you put it in perspective, we kill our meat more humanely than the average predator. We stun them and slit their throats while they are out cold. Most animals begin eating while their prey is still wiggling around and trying to get free.
In the end, it is our right to eat, just like any other animal, and there is nothing more enlightened, moral, or even intelligent about choosing to be a vegan.
You are adorable.
You people are just being completely ridiculous. You don’t have the right to decide you are better than any other species. Of course it is more moral and intelligent to be a vegan. What I believe in is that all people have equal rights and we definitely have the right not to be killed and eaten. You take away that right from an animal, you take away that right from yourself.
If you have the right to kill animals, they have the right to kill you.
Animals kill people all the time. Everyday.
Hmm… let’s see…
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
So we’ve had the right pretty much since day one… well, Day Six.
And also, I can PAY for an animal. I can train that animal. Keep that animal in my home. I care for that animal. If I no longer want that animal I can give it away. If it is too sick, I can have it killed. I can also set it free. Therefore I OWN that animal.
Since the early days of man we have used tools AND animals. We use them to work and use them as food. It’s worked for thousands of years, so why stop now?
And finally, what I said to a friend of mine when she said “You shouldn’t eat anything with a face” while I was eating a ham sandwich “I’m not eating its face, I’m eating its ass.”
Signe, let me get this straight.
You believe 1) It is wrong to kill animals for food 2) It is wrong to make your carnivorous pets eat vegetarian diets even though this contradicts your first belief.
And you’re okay with this? Whoa. Somebody’s either mastered the art of cognitive dissonance . . . or is just a hypocrite who doesn’t mind broadcasting it.
And even though it’s not OK to force vegan opinions on anybody, you’re in here arguing for . . . what, exactly? If you aren’t hoping to convert us, exactly what is your thesis here?
“If you have the right to kill animals, they have the right to kill you.” – and they do, without guilt or remorse.
Pasta is right.
If you go in the ocean, and you get eaten by a shark, then that’s life. They are at the top of the ocean food chain. No one says sharks are evil for eating what’s in their territory, and if they do, they are silly.
Fact is, Signe, everyone in the natural world has the right to survive, and part of human survival depends on meat. We would still be in tree, unevolved without the benefit of meat protein.
It is not moral, intelligent, or noble to be a vegan. It is a questionable dietary choice at best that people who think too highly of themselves think that they can lord over others. It’s highly arrogant to put oneself on higher moral ground than other people when you hold an attitude that puts other species’ ahead of your own. Where’s your compassion if it doesn’t start with your own? People with that attitude don’t love animals so much as they hate people, and that’s really pathetic.
Whatever, you’re just ridiculous. You’re not better than any other living creature and you have no right to oppress other living creatures.
Maybe you’re not.
Religious arguments aside, humans continue to grow incisors, which means we are biologically meant to consume meat. If we were meant to eat an all vegetable diet, we’d only have large front teeth and a few molars (like rabbits). Humans are also unique in that we possess reason and intellect, which allows us to make laws that livestock must be rendered insensible to pain before being killed for food. I know we have yet to do so for poultry, but there are lawmakers working on that. To me, that seems like a pretty compassionate thing to do.
Besides, if the entire world went vegan, we’d have widespread famine in a matter of years due to soil exhaustion. Humans would need to destroy wilderness and forest areas at a much faster rate in order to find fresh sources of nutrient-rich soil. Where does that put the animal kingdom? Where does that put the planet? How noble could veganism truly be?
That’s some fine debating of the point, there, Signe.
Whatever! Always an intelligent response.
Good luck driving a car without killing mosquitoes. Good luck finding vegetables that were grown without causing the death of prairie dogs, insects, or birds. Good luck digesting food without “oppressing” your natural parasitical intestinal bacteria. Good luck…
Oh, hell. Just “good luck”
Oversneer – you are on to something…viruses are living creatures so are bacteria. No antibiotics for you! And you should destroy all your mean nasty white blood cells too!
Does anyone smell the faint odor of troll on this thread? *sniff* *sniff* It wafted my way several posts back, right around the work “snakey.”
At least I *hope* it’s troll and not the stench of hypocrisy and inconsistent logic…
You’re just a bunch of ramblers. You’re not better than any other living creatures, neither am I. If someone parasitizes on me I will destroy them, whatever creature they might be, but so far nobody has been parasitizing on me, so there hasn’t been a problem. I never ever kill mosquitos, I merely lift them away and carry them outdoors, I don’t want them in my home, but that doesn’t give me the right to kill them.
It takes an idiotic mind to believe the stuff you’re saying – That you can just live life hurting and killing whoever you like and it doesn’t matter. That is not the case. All creatures have an equal right to live and be left alone. I apply this at all cases, I would never harm a living creature or desecrate their corpse. You are NOT worth any more than cats or dogs or worms or mosquitos.
With your logic, people would be allowed to just randomly walk around and kill people. You can think you have that right, as long as it’s only in your brain. However, you cannot apply this to real life. Someone’s right to live is far greater than your right to do idiotic things. So, yeah, if you wanna be an idiot, you can, but you can’t take it out over an innocent life.
All living creatures have an equal right to live, be respected, left alone and have quality in their lives. It is not up to anyone to decide that another person does not have these rights. You may think your close-minded selves are worth more than an innocent little kitten, but that’s just your own silly opinion, it’s not the kitten’s fault, so don’t hurt the kitten.
Oh and just for the record, if you think all Jewish people or gay people are stupid, you can keep that in your heads, it doesn’t actually give you the right to kill them. Just in case you did not know this. You only control your own rights, not other people’s rights. You can’t tell anyone else that they are inferior to you. If I was religious I’d probably pray for you, but since I’m a secular humanist, all I can say is, if you abuse the rights of others, don’t expect people to respect your rights.
“your natural parasitical intestinal bacteria.”
Man…
I’M TRYING TO EAT OVER HERE!
I hate to break it to you but the concept of ‘Rights’ is a human one. Mother Nature does not back your argument live and let live. The killer whale kills the seal without concious, the seal kills the penguin and so on. Your body kills parasites, germs, bacteria and viruses every single day without you being aware. I guarantee you have killed a mesquito or gnat or some other creepy crawly in the past month.
You stated that “With your logic, people would be allowed to just randomly walk around and kill people.” I would argue that you are 100% right, you have the right that Mother Nature gave you to kill anything you like …and so do I. It is the human in us and the advantages we get by working in a group that we give up that right afforded to us by Mother Nature. And in the US we take it a step further with the Bill of Rights.
I smell troll, too, but I will add to D—’s thoughtful post in saying this:
Animals do kill for survival without conscience. Every single one of them that isn’t a total herbivore, and even then, they will sometimes battle to the death with other animals, whether it be for mates, defence, or because they can, like the mother rabbits that kill their young. And they do. Don’t let Thumper fool ya. I had to help euthanize one bunny who had its leg chewed off by its own mother.
Overall, though, animals take care of their own. This is why we have packs, pods, and other animal social groups. Humans have a social group too, which is more sophisticated due to a lot of factors in our evolution that I won’t get into here. All social structures have a common purpose: survival, which includes, ta-da, the scoring of food.
Also,Troll, I mean Signe, when did parasitizing become a word?
Anyway, as D— said, we have the right to do as we wish, but within our social structure, certain actions are punished as a consequence because without that punishment, we would fall apart from within that structure.
You yourself are a huge hypocrite, Signe, if you dare preach to humans when you are killing animals to feed your own and justifying it while holding your heightened sense of self importance over others because you are a vegan. While I would never encourage you to abuse your snake or cat with a vegan diet, I don’t think you should even own pets because you can hardly respect them when you have no respect for humanity.
Either way, you have said absolutely nothing of value. You have not presented anything but what comes off as a screeching rant about animal rights from a 12 year old who’s just discovered that her hamburger comes from a cute widdle cow. How about being rational, non hypocritical, and at least try to justify your position in an intelligent manner? Or is there so little protein in your diet that you can no longer think rationally? People like you are why most of the world makes fun of vegetarians. You are an ill informed vege-nazi with nothing to add to a tired argument from a bunch of people hating hippies who have zero understanding of nature or life.
Oh, and just to add, Signe. By implying that we as humans should somehow know better or put ourselves above the lion happily pulling out the entrails of a live animal for lunch, you are not treating other animals as equals. At least most normal, intelligent people realize that if they are walking in the woods, they are capable of becoming a mountain lion’s lunch and respect the fact. What a silly little hypocrite you are.
The flaw with this post is that the majority of vegetarians do not try to force their diet on others. I am one, I’ve lived around vegetarians for years, most of us keep fairly low key about it unless asked. It’s a fallacy that vegetarians are evangelical and always trying to get others to conform. I think if anything people here are reacting to the implied judgment. If one person refrains from certain behavior because they think it’s wrong, the people around that person who still do that behavior might feel judged and defensive.
Colleen, I don’t think the Oversneer was implying that vegetarians force their diet on others in the original post. He was trying to point out the hypocrisy of PETA’s positions on animal rights and pet ownership.
Unfortunately for vegans PETA has become the face of the vegan movement.
And Colleen, not to be snarky, you cannot honestly say that PETA is non-judgemental
Nope, I’m definitely not the hypocrite here, you are, you’re the ones that claim your rights are above others. The only thing I go by is that we all have the right to do whatever we want as long as it doesn’t limit anyone else’s rights. Animals do have the same rights as humans and it is NOT up to you to decide they do not. I don’t force anybody to do anything, I’m just respecting animals’ right to live.
I do have close friends that are meat eaters and that have cannibalized and abused both humans and animals and I love them anyway, because I know that they are wonderful people. I know that there are some vegan extremists that would pretty much kill a human for eating meat, but doesn’t mind if an animal eats meat. THAT is hypocrisy. All I’m saying is that all living creatures HAVE THE RIGHT TO LIVE THEIR OWN LIVES IN PEACE.
I’m not gonna go around and say that all people who eat meat are bad people, if I did that I would insult the man I am in love with, my best friends, my cats, my snake, my little cousin Olga, my sister, my brother and a whole bunch of other people. I’m just saying – All living creatures have the right to be left alone. And NO, I don’t care if you think you’re an awesome person, it doesn’t give you the right to decide you are superior to anyone.
It’s not anyone’s right to decide they are superior. You have control over yourself only and should leave others alone. I don’t know if any of you have ever dealt with any freak vegans that like abused people for eating meat or anything, but anyway, you shouldn’t abuse other people, but you shouldn’t abuse animals either. It’s not up to anyone to decide right or wrong, superior or inferior, so the peaceful thing is to just live and let live, whatever might be the truth.
Like, let say you are one of those stupid people that have this theory that all dark-skinned people are evil… Or whatever… Sure, you can have whatever ridiculous theory you want about anything, but that doesn’t mean you have the right to kill people for their skin color. You may THINK you have the right, but since you “might” be wrong, it is not fair to other people to let your opinions go out over their LIVES.
I love that Signe is calling us ramblers, when it takes him/her approximately 1500 words to make a point.
Wait, Signe, you know people who have cannibalized humans?
Cool! Tell us more!
In less than 1500 words, please.
Signe, you have no idea what you are talking about. Animals force their will onto other animals all the time. Male bears will kill their own babies so that they can throw the mother bear back into heat. Wolves, lions and many other animals practice population control over smaller predators. That means that a wolf will go to the den of a fox and kill everyone pup in the den so that it’s pups have a better chance at survival. Lots of animals, including elk, deer and rabits will kill over territory. That’s right, animals kill others over land rights. Not food. This whole idea of total equality is not a natural thing. It is something devised by man. The food chain is a natural occurrence, not equality. If you want to get technical, just by owning a snake, you are imposing your will onto him. I really doubt that snake of yours just slithered it’s way into your home and asked you to take care of him. Infact owning a pet at all is imposing your will onto them.
Oh and the whole thing about the world being in a better state if everyone was a vegan. Well did you happen to read any news about what is happening in Haiti? Since biofuels are all the rage these days, people in Haiti, the majority of them very poor, are starving to death. Because of biofuels they cannot afford to buy their own food as now the price is too high. Now try that on a global scale and see how many people survive.
Look if you’ve made a life choice that makes you happy that is all well and good. That is something you’ve done of your own free will and no one can take that from you. However, you need to do more research. And don’t just look into the material that is biased to your beliefs. To truly know something is to know it from all sides without bias.
You are ramblers because you don’t even have a point. The only thing I really want to say is all creatures have the right to live in peace, the other stuff is mostly to emphasize. And no, cannibalism isn’t that cool. I know all kindsa people that have done all kindsa things. I really don’t care what people do. I don’t stop anybody. I just try to protect the people that are alive right here right now, I can’t do anything about the ones that are already dead.
Just to poke a stick at Signe, here’s a funny one:
So then … you’re in favor of medical testing on lab rats, dogs, chimps, etc…? If we’re gonna cure cancer, it’s going to cost a helluva lot of rodents.
Maybe all creatures CAN’T live in peace. How can you choose between 10,000 lab rats and one small boy with pediatric AIDS? Eventually, you have to. Unless you’re a complete simpleton.
I just have a few random comments and observations. Warning: this may jump around a bit…
D—-
On the subject of plant communication, it could possibly be argued that plants are closer to other so called ‘evolved’ organisms based on how they function according to stimuli. For example, some plants such as sensitive plants and venus fly traps react quite noticeably to touch and react accordingly. In the case of sensitive plants, at least, this really isn’t much different than the concept of pain. Pain isn’t really something that can be defined much more than a simple negative stimulus meant to elicit a response of aversion which is exactly what sensitive plants due when confronted with a stimulus ‘perceived’ as negative. I use perceived in quotes because the only real major difference is that animals can interpret the sensation at higher neural centers than plants. But then again, is a reaction based on evolutionary perception really so much more primitive than a reaction based on personal history perception? Not to mention that all plants have ‘inclinations’ to move towards positive stimuli such as sunlight or the aforementioned fly trap to food. It’s just something to think about, I suppose, and I wonder what Signe thinks of the mass murder of plants for a single meal as opposed the death of a single cow that could result in many. Is it really so different merely because plants took a different evolutionary route a few eons ago even though they maintain many core similarities? Oh. Another good point you made was antibiotics. Even if trying to kill things that are “parasitizing” a person, the antibiotics themselves are harvested from other organisms in much the same way milk is harvested from a cow. So even if one thinks it’s ok to use them to kill something harmful, how could a true vegan think it ok to harvest the penicillin in the first place?
Pastafarian
Although you were quoting The Oversneer, I just thought you’d be happy to know that for the most part, you don’t have too many natural parasitic intestinal bacteria. No… most of them are bonded to us via commensalism or even mutualism. Feeding on your delicious, savory digesta and excreting valuable minerals for you to use. It’s almost like eating the poop of something that ate your poop. I’m sorry… you weren’t still eating, were you? True though, many are opportunistic, but in a normal sense, they are beneficial which actually strengthens The Oversneer’s point that instead of being vicious attacking microbes, they are instead happy friendly little dudes helping us out and yet people go ahead and kill them off with even less concern than when killing of an animal that would sooner hurt us than ignore us (let alone be helpful).
Chronic Malanga
I think I have to disagree that animals kill just because they can. However, some of the less blatantly obvious reasons (which I suspect are what you actually meant by “because they can” though I hope you’ll forgive me if I’m wrong) are protection of territory, to eliminate offspring in a manner that benefits the same species (such as a mother eating young instead of a predator) if it’s known that the child can’t be properly cared for, or do to some debilitating condition such as rabies. Actually, come to think of it, I suppose I have heard of some animals kill others “just because they can.” Namely elephants. I guess it’s just something about the “smarter” animals. lol. However, most animals try not to kill each other even in fights for territory or mates if it can be avoided. But in all cases, animals of other species are always fair game throughout the entire animal world. Even those elephants I mentioned only kill other animals (rhinos and humans, if I recall) rather than their own kind. That is to say, yes, premeditated murder is unnatural, but you are absolutely right that killing another species for one of those aforementioned reasons (as well as many others that amount to profit for the species) are perfectly naturally acceptable.
Signe
Most things I could say have pretty much already be said. Some quite well and others maybe a little more poorly, but well enough. However, I suspect that the nutritional aspects of being vegan haven’t been addressed more than in passing. You mentioned that you used to get sick all the time before becoming Vegan, but now don’t as often. This is by no means a sign that being vegan is healthier than maintaining a more natural diet. There are several reasons why your situation could have occurred. 1) many times that somebody goes vegetarian or vegan, it’s often accompanied by other changes in lifestyle that actually do happen to be healthy such as exercising more, having less processed food, better stress management, taking vitamin or nutrient supplements and so on. 2) often now people associate meat with greasy hamburgers, bacon and fried chicken (especially current vegetarians and vegans, from what I’ve noticed). If that’s the case then perhaps those are more the sort of meat products you previously had rather than healthily prepared meats prepared with vegetables such as trimmed steak with garlic mashed potatoes and steamed broccoli, lean meat in a stir fry, or even something like chicken Parmesan in a thick, tomato sauce, then perhaps that better explains the difference. 3) It could be the placebo effect. That is to say, you thought that it would be a healthy choice when you made the change and so you managed to convince your body as such. This could either be that a change really occurred due to a positive outlook affecting your bodily functions, or even just a psychological demonization of past eating habits so that your views on before and after are a bit skewed. 4) Other unnoticed environmental factors could have changed at the same time. 5) It could simply be an anomaly in which the situation occurred simply by coincidence. 6) A combination of the above. And so forth… As mentioned by Chronic Malanga (thank you for another good point) long term vitamin deficiencies are more common in even the most optimal vegan diets unless resorting to vitamin pills (in which case some are still synthesized from nutrients of animal meat and products) as well as more likely to gain toxicity in others (which is only exacerbated by those same vitamin pills if used). Osteoporosis is also much more likely in general and even moreso assuming that the dietary change happened after puberty due to soy being very common in vegan and vegetarian diets (more specifically, if soy was moderately to heavily introduced only after puberty. It would still be fine if soy was an important component of the diet before puberty whether or not meat was removed). It is true though that soy can help reduce the risk of osteoporosis, but only if incorporated into the diet as mentioned. If done afterwards it actually increases the risk. I could go on and on about the nutritional problems, but I think I’ve written too much already. I can at least say this though: from my perspective as a student of a healthcare profession, I can’t support a self-imposed dietary restriction that is one of the very few (if not the only) where it’s reasonably possible to have both too much protein and not enough at the same time. Of course, as long as you don’t mind the health risks or you think they are outweighed, that’s fine, but I’d appreciate it if you don’t spread misinformation about how ‘healthy’ being vegan is off of personal anecdotes and blatantly biased information stemming from poorly done studies (I can’t say definitively that I’ve ever seen a well run study supporting an overall improvement in health via a vegan or vegetarian diet). Oh yes. As for your claiming moral superiority and the foolishness of others, remember that matters of morality are your own opinion, so please try to refrain from stating them as fact. I, for one, appreciate natural law. True, it seems to be something that you are vastly ignorant of, but I can tell you this: in my opinion based on the observation of natural law, you seem to me to be an abomination of nature and a potential destroyer of all things stemming from the only definitive order in the universe, albeit an inept one. (note: I’m not saying religious orders aren’t valid, because that would oppose me as well. lol. Just that nature is the only one that has readily observable and provable laws). Thankfully though, natural forces are far stronger than you seem to give credit and they won’t be changed forever by you or even mankind as a whole. Again, that’s just my own view of you based on a portion of my own sense of morality. One last thing though. As for the mosquito. Although you mentioned you let them go outside rather than kill them, are you implying that they don’t have a right to live in the same area or house as you? True, you mentioned that since they are parasitic you’d rather not let them feed off you (which if done everywhere would result in a lack of mating and eventually cause the extinction of at least a few species of mosquitoes that only have human blood meals), but I’m sure the bigger worry on the mosquito’s mind isn’t so much the survival of her species as where it will sleep tonight, and yet you would deprive her of such a nice home?
And finally, Colleen
Now, of course I don’t speak for The Oversneer, and I hope I’ll be corrected if wrong, but it seems to me this post was about PETA specifically, rather than vegetarians and vegans in general. After all, I’ve known many of both, but the it was only the fanatics on the subject who were supported PETA in any way, shape, or form. You’re right, of course, that most are silent about their ideals or at least that they don’t try to force the beliefs on others (although actually, for me it’s been about 75% do and 25% don’t, but I’m giving both the benefit of the doubt due to low (less than a few hundred) sampling size and the possibility of people who I still don’t know are vegetarian or vegan. So, please, I hope you won’t take the original post as any more of an attack on vegetarians or vegans in general than you think non-vegetarians should take the stating of ideals (even if not pressuring them) as criticism of the omnivorous lifestyle, which thankfully it seems you don’t think is too much.
Sorry about the long post. I would welcome any reasonable corrections to anything I may have stated as fact.
You know guys, Signe’s “above the food chain” attitude sorta reminds me of someone else…
http://dwb.adn.com/front/story/4110831p-4127072c.html
“cannibalism isn’t that cool” you know my chickens are cannibals and are meat eaters… oh and turtles eat meat too, they really like grubs, which is an animal
Signe – do you live in the city? You seem to have very little idea how nature works. I would invite you to come out to the country for a week or two and work the land. Then you can see first hand how cruel nature can be.
Totally off topic but you probably also believe that man is destroying the Earth. Come out to my place during the sprng and summer and watch Mother Earth reclaim all the land I have been working on for the last couple of years. Check out my landfill, there are more plants growing there then anywhere else.
“And no, cannibalism isn’t that cool. I know all kindsa people that have done all kindsa things.”
That’s some circle of friends you’ve got there, Signe.
How can you choose? I don’t support testing on animals, no, as I said I try to protect the people that are alive now, including rats. I suggest that they have human volunteers to test on. I mean, rats would hardly volunteer to become test animals, they have better things to do. As I said, though it’s not up to me to decide who is more worth, I will sacrifice a lot for the people that I love… Merely because I love them. So yeah, I’d sacrifice a billion rats and more for somebody that I passionately love, but I couldn’t possibly claim the right to decide the fate of a rat… They own themselves! So if I’d sacrifice a rat I’d do a terrible thing. But yes I’d do about anything for someone I love. I’ve had a rat, it was very intelligent and affectionate.
Signe makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine. No one is saying that animal abuse is okay. I’m not saying that it’s okay to abuse even our food animals. In one post, though, eating meat is something akin to hate crime, yet she loves her meat eating man. So basically, what I am getting here is that it’s not okay to eat meat as long as Signe personally likes you. Get a life, a freakin’ cheeseburger, but get over yourself and your silly, immature, rambling hypocrisy. Get some real facts and stop reading the crap that PETA spoon feeds their drones.
We as humans eat meat naturally, and normally and have zero obligation to step outside the food chain. If you do, yipee, good for you, but don’t expect a freakin’ medal because you aren’t special no matter what Mommy tells you.
Stop hating your own species so much and get off the high horse you’ve been riding because no one is buying it. You make all vegetarians/vegans who are doing it for the right reasons look stupid.
Thanks Hmmmm… I’m just kiddin around.
Stop insulting me just for supporting the right to live! Of course killing animals is as bad as killing humans and it’s not OK for anyone to do it, whether I love them or not! I’m just saying that personally I would do lots of things for the people I love. I am being a vegan for the right reasons, because it is the animals’ right to live, because corpses are gross, because meat is unhealthy and because mass-breeding cattle is bad for the environment.
I don’t hate my own species, I love all species, except for worms, because I personally find them gross, but of course, it’s not up to me to decide what species is better, but I am still allowed to have my personal opinions. You can have whatever opinions you want, but it doesn’t give you the right to kill. And calling me a hypocrite for defending the right to live, only shows what a bad person you are.
So what if I’m in love with a meat eater? He’s a wonderful person. So is my meat-eating best friend. And all my meat eating best friends. And a lot of meat eaters I know. But that doesn’t change the fact that the animals have the right to live a life in peace. I don’t mind meat eaters, I told you, I have a snake, he’s a meat eater and I don’t hate him for it so I have no reason to hate humans for eating meat either.
I’m just saying, the most important thing is that ALL LIVING CREATURES HAVE ENDLESS RIGHTS AS LONG AS IT DOESN’T LIMIT THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER LIVING CREATURE AND IT’S NOT UP TO ANYONE TO DECIDE THAT THEY ARE BETTER. That is the only thing that matters and yes, I will go against that important principle to defend the people I love and yes, that would make me a bad person, now wouldn’t it? But I’m just way too passionate about some people to go against them if they so would murder and torture.
But that’s the kind of individual I am, I will always defend my insane homicidal friends no matter what, because I’m crazy for them, those beautiful people. However THIS DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT ALL LIVING CREATURES ARE EQUAL so don’t think you are better than other creatures. And DON’T insult me any more, it is not acceptable.
Signe,
For someone who doesn’t believe animals can be “owned” you sure say “MY cat,” “MY snake,” or “MY turtle” a lot.
I had an amusing thought today: If you were to fall down dead in your home, all three of your pets would eat you to survive.
Oh. I’m sure that perhaps I had several things needing some clarification, but one suddenly came to me without any prompting. Although I think when I referred vegans with regards to the nutritional problems associated with a vegan diet, I just want to make sure that readers don’t think I also meant that the less restrictive vegetarian diets are as detrimental. Sometimes even vegetarian diets can be somewhat detrimental, but not nearly as much so as vegan diets and, if done properly, quite often with only a negligible difference or even more healthy than a typical omnivorous diet (though still less so than a properly maintained omnivorous diet, but who has time to sort out a plan for one of those? lol).
Signe, Signe, Signe.
“ALL LIVING CREATURES HAVE ENDLESS RIGHTS AS LONG AS IT DOESN’T LIMIT THE RIGHTS OF ANOTHER LIVING CREATURE AND IT’S NOT UP TO ANYONE TO DECIDE THAT THEY ARE BETTER”
Does that work for predators too? Because I think they missed that memo.
Come on now, tell us you’re joking, that you can’t be this obtuse. All will be forgiven and we’ll go out for a nice cheeseburger.
None of my pets would ever eat human, especially a human that they treat like a mother. And insulting me just because I defend the right to live, only shows what a rotten person you are.
About nutrition, a vegan diet is very healthy if you take your vitamins and Omega 3. And don’t say the Omega 3 comes from animals, because there is Omega 3 taken from plants instead.
Signe
“Stop insulting me just for supporting the right to live!” I wonder then, was it any more fair for your initial introduction to this thread to be an insult to most of those present at the time? If I recall (and by recall, I mean look back at the top of the page), the very first line you wrote on your very first post in this board was “Some people are such idiots…” Is it really any different for you to open up with an attack against those initially present simply for their support of nature or at least their own beliefs on the subject than it is for those same people to insult you for your own views? Of course it is. In the latter case, it’s a response to aggression rather than your own unprovoked, sweeping insult. But then again, perhaps others on this topic disagree with me, since of course I don’t speak for all those involved and I hope they’ll correct me if I’m wrong.
“None of my pets would ever eat human, especially a human that they treat like a mother.”
Isn’t that what Roy said to Siegfried right before he lost half his face?
I don’t call people idiots because they kill or eat animals, but because they have the arrogance to believe they are above animals or that they are better than vegans somehow.
Also, just frikin stop insulting me, I haven’t done anything wrong here. You have absolutely no right to throw insults at me!
I said don’t insult me! And in my first comment I commented how idiotic it is to think it is OK for animals to eat meat, but that humans are evil if they eat meat.
The importance is that the animals have the right NOT to be eaten… That doesn’t make it OK to abuse neither a human nor an animal for eating meat.
Hmmmm… Yes, actually, in response to your post, that is what I meant. However, it should be noted that some lions have been known to kill other animals for the sake of entertainment.
Signe… you keep digging your hole further, don’t you? If you dropped dead and your animals had no one to be “mommy”, they would feed off of you to survive. If you don’t want to see that, fine, but there are several cases we can cite where this has happened.
Furthermore, you have it all wrong and are too thick to see how silly you are being.
1. You are claiming that because other people kill and eat animals and you don’t, that you are on a higher moral ground. That’s the first instance in which you hold yourself above other animals. It is worse because that animal you are holding yourself above is your own species. Kinda sick if you ask me. Self righteous comes to mind.
2. You claim that all animals are equal, yet you are holding humans to a higher standard (I use the word higher loosely) than any other omnivore or carnivore. Well, sorry, doesn’t fly. If you can’t hold a lion to the same standard as a human, you are putting humans on a higher level of accountability. That in and of itself destroys your childish argument. We are all animals, and we all have to kill to eat.
You should actually learn something about nature before you go around spewing convoluted and hypocritical arguments for everyone to see and ridicule. You were the first to begin insulting people, calling them idiots and ridiculous, yet you can’t handle it when it comes right back to you and is coupled with logic. You have absolutely no right to throw insults at anyone here, yet that’s all you’ve done in between your whining about all animals being equal unless your boyfriend is eating them.
Signe,
http://www.messybeast.com/cat-eat-man.htm
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/05/15/austria.dog/index.html
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22327263-13762,00.html
I didn’t insult anyone’s views so don’t you dare saying you have the right to insult my views. In the first comment, I said that hypocrites who support animals eating meat but harass humans for eating meat are idiots. If you leave meat-eating animals alone you should leave meat-eating humans alone too. That doesn’t mean it’s OK to kill animals.
Oh, Hmmmm… your last post reminded me of something. I’ve probably said this in other posts in the past, but it bears repeating.
When my grandfather died from diabetes related renal failure, I thought I would do the right thing and become a vegetarian. I’m a thin person, active, and was always pretty healthy other than my half pack a day habit. I went at it eating right and taking the right vitamins because I was doing it in a misguided belief that meat and dairy were bad for me and that I could stave off the inevitable (diabetes is all over my family and I am hypoglycemic). I even stopped drinking alcohol for the most part. Within two years, my bones were weak and I blew a disk in my neck by simply turning my head, I was always sick and if someone sneezed within a ten mile radius I would catch whatever they had. I was always tired, cranky, and ended up gaining fifteen pounds which shows on a five two frame,believe me! My doctor ordered me to start eating meat again. It’s been nearly three years, and I haven’t been sick, my neck is better to the point where I can race cars again, and I’ve lost the weight. Funny, isn’t it? I am a firm believer that if you have to supplement a diet with pills, then it’s not healthy, period.
Another thing for Signe – where do you get off even suggesting that a meat eater considers themselves more moral than a vegan? Usually, the argument is made the other way around. Meat eaters don’t make it about morality. However, you might want to examine what you think is respect for nature and rethink some of what you are saying, because your understanding of nature is so limited that I am beginning to think that you are just being a troll. For real.
It is one thing to kill an animal for the sake of killing it. Because humans have the ability to reason on a level higher than other animals, we can recognize cruelty and choose whether or not we act upon it. Killing an animal humanely, which btw, is the norm (I used to raise hogs for slaughter as a kid), and not wasting the meat and other usable parts, is not immoral. Killing an animal and leaving it to die is immoral.
Those who eat meat, and to be fair, most vege-whatevers I know, do not consider themselves more moral or better than other people who make different dietary choices. See, rational human beings don’t judge people that way. However, you have said somewhere in another post that because you are vegan, you are more moral. I am not going to go back through your whining to find that quote, but it’s there. Yet, Miss Moral High Ground, you have “boys” enough to sit here and decide that your snake’s food is less valuable than your snake. Who died and made you judge and jury? Miss Moral High Ground looks down her nose at people who eat meat, but she’s getting banged by a meat eater, and hangs around meat eaters. If you were famous, you’d have a separate section on this web site just for you.
Oh, I changed my mind, here is your quote.
“Of course it is more moral and intelligent to be a vegan.”
Hypocrite.
So Signe, people and animals have “ENDLESS RIGHTS” to everything except the right to insult you on a blog?
All this nonsense is making me tired.
“Don’t insult me, you idiots!”
“None of my pets would ever eat human, especially a human that they treat like a mother.”
I really hate to break this to you but you are wrong and you are very naive if you think otherwise. I absolutely guarantee you 100% if you were to die right now in your home, once your cat was out of food your corpse would be next on the menu.
That is not an insult, I have never said anything about your person except my personal belief you are naive in your thinking. You want to be a vegan, that is fine, wonderful, enjoy. But that life still choice does not make someone morally superior. Plants are living creatures too and killing is killing, right? You choose to kill plants, nothing wrong with that but all I am pointing out is inconsistent arguments in your statements. That doesn’t make you a bad person. If anything you should review what has been written and develop a stronger argument for your lifestyle.
These inconsistency are also whats wrong with PETA. Don’t be cruel to animals but feed them a diet that they are not biologically designed for, which will lead to malnutrion in your pet which is cruel. (lets not even mention the killing of Pit Bulls, the euthanizing of animals in their shelters, their stance on fur, etc.)
Signe normally I would stay out of this because I’m too lazy to argue, and I really don’t care, but you’re anthropomorphizing kiddo. Making your animals human. They may have bonded to you, but they wouldn’t recognize your dead body as anything but food. Especially a snake. At best that thing’s brain is about the size of a peanut. I like my pets too but the reality is they’re just animals. I make no mistake that if they went without long enough, I’d be nothing but food to them.
Check it out here. http://www.messybeast.com/cat-eat-man.htm
It’s just one of 6,000,000 when I typed in pets eat dead owner. Even if only a quarter of those apply…
Signe: “You have absolutely no right to throw insults at me!”
But wait, I thought we all had endless rights, as long as we’re not killing anything…
Seems to me you that your moral compass is a tad miscalibrated.
Simon, you crack me up.
MC Mom, this nonsense is making me tired too. Know how I know? I have said basically the same thing in the last few posts I’ve written. I’m going to bed. It’s late here in the UK.
I have just said that all people have endless rights as long as it doesn’t limit anyone else’s rights. And yes, the insults you’re throwing at me from out of the blue violate my rights. I haven’t said anything wrong here, there is no way you can beat the right to live. You are really showing what completely rotten and worthless people you are when you are actually calling me a bad person just for defending the right to live!
Chronic Malanga
If your family has a history of diabetes, then the best way to go would probably be reducing sugar intake. Of course, there’s a lot of talk nowadays about high fructose corn syrup intake being an increased diabetes risk, but really, most studies that are used as evidence look solely at pure fructose (and most high fructose corn syrup is only 55% fructose anyway as opposed to the only slightly less 50% of pure sucrose). As such, disregard that common bias, but remember to at least look at corn syrup as being on par with regular sugar (and avoid massive fruit intake since their primary sugar is fructose (ironic that the fruit sugar is more likely to cause diabetes than most other sugars. lol)). However, because glucose (the other 50% of sucrose) is the optimal source of energy for the brain, remember to still get some, but spread it out over the day. Perhaps you’ve heard all of that before, and perhaps you could care less anyway, but my mother is currently pre-diabetic so it’s on my mind and now out as a basic guide for maybe those who never thought much about it before, but also have a bit of a family history of it. However, normally diabetes is caused by chronic hyperglycemia with hypoglycemia being an eventual complication of diabetes… do you happen to have a personal history of other symptoms of diabetes? Or, when you last heard that you were hypoglycemic, have you deprived yourself of sugars for a month or two beforehand? Sorry if you don’t care to discuss it at all. I have a physical diagnosis practical coming up and it’s affecting me. lol
Signe
I’m going to share with a little story about the true nature of animals.
Oh some of you may find this story strange or fake, but where I live it’s common.
Many years before I was born, my parents lived a very natural life. In the summer they would live in teepee and would move to a hut in the winters. Or a shed or whatever. They hunted and gathered what they could and bought the rest on thier rare trips to town. The town being a gas station with a few store items. On one of these trips my mother witnessed something somewhat shocking. You see she was from the city, and was just getting use to this life with my father. Anyway, this little bird was sitting on a post, looking ever so cute when this hawk came by and snatched it. The hawk then returned to the post to eat this little bird. That’s it, not kill it, just eat it alive. It would pick at it’s eyes, ripping apart the bird piece by piece. My mother told me the screams sounded like a child’s. She walked towards the hawk to stop it and kill the bird. There was no saving it now. My father stopped her. When she asked him why he said:
“let nature take it’s course”
You see, it’s wrong to screw with nature. And making something that is an omnivore or a carnivore eat food made for a herbivore is wrong and a slight against nature. There are reasons animals have evolved the way are. You seem to have a lot of passion, but are ignorant about the subject. I do see a lot a parallels between you and Treadwell. Unfortunatly for him, his death was in vain because he actually did more harm to the bears. You should look into not ending up like him.
Gosh, am I the only one totally not reading this thread anymore?
Seems to me Signe’s just screwing with us to get a reaction. And I’ve got a decent attention span, but the 1500 word comments are just killing it. I’ve got an idea for the animal lover–let’s quit beating a dead horse here.
Heeeeeere’s Signe!
[A step too far. -- MGMT.]
Damn Signe! Your photography is amazing.
well i guess someone has to be the extremists around here in order to bring about some attention to animal cruelty. Tho i wish they werent so hypocritical about it. well at least someones trying. hehe. i feel as long as the animals are raised free-ranged, and well taken care of (until their fated day!) its ok. Because when it comes to food, it is a priority. i mean humans are omnivores. However killing animals for anything else really i find cruel. true, the whole meat “industry” overall contributes to pollution “carbon footprint” and global warming, and its true that when humans were omnivores we homosapians i believe? didnt have any other options at the time (hunters and gatherers), and what applied then doesnt mean it should apply now, bc hell were in the 21st c. could go either way.
oh well you wont catch me wearing a fur coat anytime soon. thats for sho.
ive actually read that veganism, eventually overtime can be detrimental to brain function and cause/result in brain shrinkage. (and without a routinely good breakfast everyday, the results can be brain deterioration! random sry) i agree i think moderation is key.
@Hmmm….
Thanks! Actually, I have never been big on the sugar or fruit intake. I like sweets, but I only eat them very occasionally, and I am picky about what fruit I like. I probably don’t eat enough fruit. I use natural honey in my tea, no sweeteners in coffee or things that people generally sweeten like oatmeal. I don’t drink sodas at all, and never have. I have better control of the blood sugar these days, but I was once told that I was pre-diabetic. How accurate that is, I don’t know. I did go through a period as a teen where my blood sugar was erratic, but it sorted itself out. Weird, eh?
@Signe
Someone insulting you when you have first gone out of your way to be rude and insulting yourself is not a rights violation. You’re one of those, aren’t you? One day, you might grow up and get over yourself.
“If you leave meat-eating animals alone you should leave meat-eating humans alone too. That doesn’t mean it’s OK to kill animals.”
And you still don’t see where you are contradicting yourself here, Signe? Really? That’s pretty sad.
I’m sorry guys, but I think the stuff TheEye put up is unnecessary. Even if it’s already out there it just seems over the line somehow. Sorry.
Just my two cents.
Dang. I had some small hope that Signe was a troll and not impossibly foolish.
Signe you have insulted many people here. If you can’t take it don’t dish it out then whine like a little kid about it. It’s really immature.
“only shows what a bad person you are”
“It takes an idiotic mind to believe the stuff you’re saying”
So everyone who doesn’t agree with you is a bad person or stupid. Great argument.
I vote you are all bad people because I know she couldn’t be talking about me. I felt we had a connection.
“I felt we had a connection.”
Said the spider to the fly…
Oh well, troll or impossibly foolish, it was fun. Onward and upward…or at least onward.
I would think that any post concluding with Oversneer promising $100 would earn 110 comments trying to earn that money. Not 110 fencing a troll/very foolish person. *sigh* $100 would’ve been more fun.
Just stopping by with one last piece of advice just in case you guys are still suffering from delusions: Frikin get over yourselves! I only commented that I agree, there are idiotic vegans, like in the example in the blog entry (who think it is only horrible to kill animals for human food, but not horrible to kill them for animal food and that it is OK to force humans to change their diet but not OK to force animals to change their diet.) As you would notice if you had any kind of intelligence, that’s what I meant by “some people are such idiots” (obviously). I just mentioned that not ALL vegans are idiots. Most vegans, such as myself, know that it is horrible to kill animals WHETHER it’s for animal food or human food and that you are not allowed to force anyone to change their diet WHETHER they are humans or animals. Good bye now.
Ohhhhhhhhh the cat came back, the very next day.
The cat came back, they thought he was a-gonner.
But the cat came back, he just couldn’t stay away, away, a-way-yea-yea…
Sing with me Signe! C’mon, everyone join in!
LMAO!!!! I would have a little more faith in humanity if Signe actually were a troll, rather than a foolish, self contradictory, high on her moral horse, and deluded idiot.
Signe you need help. You are defintely suffering nutritional deficiencies that is affecting your brain. Poor fishes have to die to feed your snakey – what a hypocrite!
(You did one thing right – going gluten-free and sugar-free but you need to get that meat back in your diet). Vegans can do well for a while but once you’ve completely stripped your bodies nutrient stores problems will arise.
An alternative view-point: I don’t eat meat – not because I am denying the fact I have a body that is omnivorous – but because of factory farming standards. Brought up on a farm producing beef myself, so I’m familiar with it all. I prefer personally not to eat meat because of the suffering the young animals go through in confinement but I do eat fish (yeah, it’s also farmed and you can say I’m a hypocrite but I admit that I need some kind of flesh-food to survive). However, I think PETA are very stupid and cruel and hypocritical because of their actual treatment of animals you described above (euthanising unwanted pets). I can understand euthanising an animal that is suffering but their ‘genocidal’ tendencies are disturbing to say the least.
Wow! I tried to read all the comments here, but I could actually feel my IQ creeping downwards trying to read the embarrassingly mind-numbing and ridiculous comments from this “moral” Signe.
The only animal that has rights are human beings. Period. And boy, they sure do taste awful good!