Have you all been following the Mel Gibson divorce? Because it just got tabloidalicious.
A little back story, first: Robyn Gibson has put up with a lot from her husband of 28 years. The drinking, the drinking while driving, the Jewish slurs, the “sugar tits” comment that still makes me giggle. And my all-time favorite? Telling the press in 2004 that his Episcopalian wife is going to hell:
“There is no salvation for those outside the Church,” Gibson replied. “I believe it.”
He elaborated: “Put it this way. My wife is a saint. She’s a much better person than I am. Honestly. She’s, like, Episcopalian, Church of England. She prays, she believes in God, she knows Jesus, she believes in that stuff. And it’s just not fair if she doesn’t make it, she’s better than I am. But that is a pronouncement from the chair. I go with it.”
So even though she’s a good person, she’s of a different Christian denomination than he is, and God takes such technicalities under consideration at the Pearly Gates. Don’t blame Mel Gibson for saying it — he’s just going along with God’s decree.
Well, some of them, at least:
MEL GIBSON’s wife finally sued for divorce after hearing his Russian lover say she is pregnant.
The Sun can reveal ROBYN, 53, ended their 28-year marriage after OKSANA GRIGORIEVA told pals she was expecting.
She was also horrified to find the Braveheart star had moved the stunning 39-year-old and her son, 11, into one of his mansions in California.
A source said: “Robyn put up with Mel for years but when she found out Oksana was telling friends she was expecting it was the last straw.”
I don’t know if Mel has heard of those pesky Ten Commandments, but I’m pretty sure he broke one of the biggies by having a mistress and then knocking her up.
Related posts:
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- Mel Gibson Demands Paternity Test on Mistress’s Child So you all know by now how I feel about...
- Mel Gibson Threatens Churchgoers With Eternal Damnation Mel Gibson, who is in the process of divorcing his...
- Mel Gibson’s Baby Mama Attending Sunday School at His Church Mel Gibson is in the process of building a huge...
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Getting pregnant out of wedlock is not listed in the top 10. However adultery is, along with coveting the neighbors wife. But since she is not married, I guess he could covet without worry.
I didn’t know that people in the United States hated each other within Christianity for being a different denomination. Seriously. I moved to a very conservative southern Baptist small town completely unaware that it may not be okay to be Catholic or even denominations of Protestantism that were too Catholic. Even though I’m already well schooled in how God hates my heathen soul, I’m still floored every time someone new (new being new to my knowledge) reacts that way.
What an enormous jerk. If there is a hell I am sure there is a spot ready for him.
Maaaaaaaan. This isn’t the Max Rockatansky I thought was so cool. In the first one. I thought the second one was kinda dumb.
The ones that go on and on the loudest and are happy to condemn all those that don’t believe as they do are the ones that are usually breaking all the rules when no one is supposedly watching.
One day I will use “sugartits” in a sentence.
Mel sounds like a royal a-hole. But you shouldn’t take it from me, because I’m Episcopalian and thus going to Hell. It’s been pronounced from the chair.
Anni, there is a long and not-too-illustrious history of various Christian denominations disrepecting each other. The Southern Baptists used to send missionaries to the Midwest and the Dakotas to try to convert the Lutherans (they might still do it, for all I know). And I still get periodic visits from nice young Mormons proselytizing on behalf of Moroni.
Well, ya know, the Catholics believe if you go to confession, tell the priest all the bad things you did, all your sins would be forgiven. I was raised Catholic, and when it came time for our first confession, the religion teacher made it sound like we were facing eternal damnation if we didn’t tell the priest all the bad things we did. We were 10, what mortal sin could we possibly commit?! I ended up spending my “First Confession” asking the priest what the point of it all was because I couldn’t understand why God would send a child to Hell if they played a joke on someone… it was actually a nice chat!
Anni, it never ceases to amaze me how truly hateful different denominations can be! One of our local Baptists churches had a new Pastor, and this man was AWFUL! He fired my mom and two others from the daycare for being “Sinners” because they were Catholic and Episcopalian! He also said that neither them OR their families were welcome in his church. Put it this way, I have used more reverence toward a piece of toilet paper than he showed to the scriptures! He ended up knocking up a young congregation member and yes he’s married, but since he is “Saved”, he feels he can do whatever he wants without fear of going to Hell. Yet because I’m not Baptist or saved, I can do all the good in the world and still go to Hell. Whatever.
I’ve had Pentecostal congregations praying for my immortal soul when I said I went to a Catholic school.
McMom, I will say of all the denominations who have ever talked to me, the Mormons have been the only ones who haven’t tried to convert me. It may just have been the missionaries I encountered, but they told me what they liked about their faith and why it fit them.
I refuse to deal with any denomination or belong to any religion. I learn all I can about them, I’ll respect everyone’s choices as long as they respect mine.
Remember when Mel Gibson was handsome?
So sad. As a Catholic, I was brought up that all Christians would go to heaven, as long as they lived a Christian life. Sniff. And I REALLY liked him in “The Patriot”
Wow, sounds like some people have had crazy experiences with some bad examples of Christians. I was raised in a Christian home and went to a Christian school K-12 and have been a member of a few different churches and youth groups over my life (at least three different denominations) and teach Sunday school and go on missions trips, but I’ve never had an experience like any of those stories. I hope you don’t judge all religious people based on a few bad examples.
It’s a shame that someone like Mel Gibson was so outspoken about religion because now people will point to his screw-ups as a reason why they don’t trust religious people all together. I’ve always liked Mel as an actor, and had some sympathy for his drinking problem, but this is just too disappointing. His poor wife.
As I recall, Mel isn’t exactly Catholic.
Gibson’s father is the High Pope of their own little branch of Catholicism, which makes Mel the Pope Junior, Prince of Eternal Wisdom and Lord of the Mullet.
Adultery is perfectly legal in Gibsonism. So is shooting half of Los Angeles just days before your black partner is set to retire from the force with a full pension.
LOL, Flirt! X-D Good comments everyone.
This, or rather M.G., is so sad and disturbing. I really can’t think of anything nice to say about him. I love the conviciton with which he made The Passion, and seeing the movie helped me strengthen my faith when it was really time for me to do that. But I think that he has serious mental problems personally. God bless his wife and kids.
As for the denominational wars, I remember how when I was a Lutheran kid that it was thought to be almost evil to portray Jesus still on the cross, as on the Catholic’s crucifix. And how Baptists likewise thought that we Lutherans were evil for various reasons.
If you would like to see something interesting on religion watch Bill Maher’s movie Religiosity..I think that is what it is called.
There are several points in the movie which Bill makes basic assumptions that are incorrect. However, the interview with a Catholic priest is very interesting.
That said I usually don’t like Bill’s comedic stance.
I’d hit it (The russin chick)
I’d really like to know what happened to Mel. He was so cool in Mad Max, Road Warrior, and Maverick. Now he’s a tool.
I haven’t really run into the denominational hatred mentioned by others… My mom grew up Catholic, and Mom and Dad both became Pentecostal/Charismatic/whatever after they married, but we were raised in a variety of churches – Pentecostal, Episcopalian, Methodist, Baptist, probably others (we moved around a lot). I, a mutt Protestant, married a Catholic, and though we argue about some doctrines, we know we’re both Christians.
I’m from northern New York, and he’s from Michigan, so maybe it’s a southern thing?
Jill, I think it is just a Michigan thing
This coming from a Buckeye fan 
I never saw the hatred until I went to college where some “Christian’s” told me that I would go to hell for being a Catholic and they decided not to play anymore reindeer games with me because I was Catholic. To me you are not a Christian by the name of the faith you are offiliated with, but by your faith.
What happened was that he stopped acting. Apparently, somebody made the mistake of telling him he should just “be himself.” What they SHOULD have told him was that he should just “be Riggs. Like, all the time.”
” I hope you don’t judge all religious people based on a few bad examples.”
Nope, not at all. I just choose not to affiliate with any particular religion. That has more to do with my personal beliefs than anything else
*Sigh* Mel Gibson went from being hot to some crummy old fart
Hey AAW, PBBBBLllltttttt!
Sorry guys, I’m contractually obligated to do that whenever a Buckeye rears it’s ugly head. If you don’t shoo them off right away, they paint their chests red and start yelling “Oh!” “Hi!” “Oooooooh!” Then they whip out a sousaphone and try to dot the i.
And yep, we’re not quite so pushy about our religion here in Michigan.
I grew up in a small mid-MI town of about 500 people, populated entirely by Catholics and Presbies. They hardly ever rumbled. ‘Cept for when Pastor Tony started dating Maria, the sister of Father Bernardo, but that was just a whole lotta snapping, flying leaps, and toe spins…
Okay, I don’t get it
The Sun first reported that his mistress’ name was Oksana Pochepa and that she was 24. Now she’s 39 and has a son and a different last name? Or does he have 2 Russian mistresses named Oksana?
Lol, Mel has always been like this, where have you all been. I remember seeing him on TV interviews in the late 80’s when he was running around California drinking to excess and sneaking around with girls while his wife and 500 kids were stuck in Austrailia oblivious.
Like the old saying goes, it all catches up to you in the end.
Well, he did admit his wife was a better person than him
However, this is all news to me that he even has a mistress…
However, his views are not limited to him. Obviously not every Catholic believes it, but the word from the Pope himself is that only Catholics go to heaven: http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2007/07/11/pope_reasserts_salvation_comes_from_one_church/. (I’m sure a better article exists but I’m just not searching the right combo of words at the moment). And as a Southern Baptist myself (not one who goes around preaching to other denominations, though, and not one who knows anyone who does), the “hatred” between us and the Catholics is definitely a two-way street. Probably stemming from the aforementioned belief that the Catholic church is The Church.
Minnow, were any jazz hands involved? ‘Cause that would be a justifiable reason to rumble instead of keepin’ it cool…real cool.
Kristine, you’re right that the friction among Christian churches is a two-way street. We Episcopalians say “we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church” in the Creed but somehow I still don’t think the pope would give us a pass. However, that hasn’t stopped a number of local Catholic families from coming over to the Dark Side lately.
Nothing “happened” to Mel. He has always been a jerk, an EXTREME Catholic and an womanizer. Hollywood just covered up for him for years because he brings in the big bucks. My friend used to be an accountant for films in LA (15 years ago). She said he was sleeping with anything that walked by but everyone made excuses for him. Also, he is of the belief that, by being Catholic, all he has to do is confess his sins to some priest (which, in this day & age is probably just as corrupt as Mel except his preference is boys) who will then absolve him so he can get into heaven. Apparently, his wife doesn’t even have to commit any sins in order to go to jail but Mel can literally murder someone and, as long as a priest says it is OK, he will still get into heaven.
He and his father are deniers of the Holocaust, so, apparently being in favor of murdering millions of Jews is a very Christian thing to do. Just pretend it didn’t happen.
I use to be a fan of Mel Gibson before he made the The Passion of the Christ movie, then add to that the racist remarks. Hope there’s a special place in hell for him when its his time to leave this world.
Wonder if he will marry the mistress – he’ll have to get an annulment in order to get married again in the Catholic church. What a jerk!!!
Actually, if we’re not supposed to lump all Muslims together as bomb-throwing, wife-killing, camel-riding fanatics, which they ain’t, then we can’t do the same thing with Christians either. Fair’s fair.
Flirt, you made me larf right out loud, which for today is a big accomplishment.
My faith was never in Mel Gibson anyway, but I am really, really disappointed in him, not just for this but for “Bird on a Wire”, “Payback”, and that “sugartits” thing. And also the mullets. Those alone will send him to hell, miniPope or not.
“Sorry guys, I’m contractually obligated to do that whenever a Buckeye rears it’s ugly head. If you don’t shoo them off right away, they paint their chests red and start yelling “Oh!” “Hi!” “Oooooooh!” Then they whip out a sousaphone and try to dot the i.”
LMAO Minnow, it’s actually yelling “O-H” and “I-O” during “Hang on Sloopy” where we get obnoxious! LOL I go to OSU but I seem to lack anything resembling the school spirit when it comes to sports. In fact, this coming football season you’ll find me anywhere except Columbus during home games!
Julie…”some priest (which, in this day & age is probably just as corrupt as Mel except his preference is boys”… when I was going through the Holy Prison known as Catholic school, we had 3 priests leave the priesthood to marry women. Most priests are red-blooded men through and through and very much love the ladies (heck my best friend’s parents are a former priest and former nun!). Tho the latest hot one who was at the church down where I used to live, unfortunately, lived by the credo “Lead us not into temptation”, and it was worse because he mowed the lawn shirtless and holy crap…it’s a shame he went into priesthood!! What a waste of a hot body! For a while I was determined to snag him but… damnit, he really does live by his vows!!
Kristine…”Probably stemming from the aforementioned belief that the Catholic church is The Church”… is why I made the decision to leave The Church. I had the theology shoved down my throat from ages 5-15, heard how everyone but Catholics were bad people… yet I knew too many good people of other denominations/religions and too many bad Catholics from my church and school. I pretty much washed my hands of any religious affiliation around the age of 15 when I made my escape from the Holy Prison.
Queen Elizabeth I said it best “There is but one God, one Jesus, the rest is dispute over trifles”.
Religion is man made………spirituality is your relationship with God/Deity of your choice. BIG difference.
Many celebrities, they get above the rest of us (in their own head) and think they can become God/Goddess and can do whatever they want and call it okay. The rest of us do that and we get called sinners.
You rock, Minnow! First the “Lord of the Mullet” win, and then the OSU diss? Geezopete, you’re awesome!
PS- I also hail from mid MI–Midland, to be exact.
@Malagna: I got in trouble with Blizzard for using that set o’ words and was given a warning for the ban I’ll get next time in World of Warcraft. So do not use it there. ]:
Even though the statement was “don’t call me sugar tits, you don’t have that right.”
Rawr.
Ani – I’ve had similar frustrating experiences. One would think being an unforgivable Catholic heathen would at least result in invitations to join local Baptist churches to convert and be saved their way to save my immortal soul, but actually? No. It’s led to me being almost entirely ostracized from the religious community in the town, loss of friends over my upbringing, and a complete inability to go to church for three straight weeks when my area ran out of gas (we lost it every few days in about a forty five minute area, even though there wasn’t much coverage). When I go to hell, it will be righteous and good, because I’m such an awful person. On those grounds alone.
I’m absolutely appalled, because I wasn’t raised to use my faith to hate anyone. I was told I should love everyone, even people I couldn’t convince, because there was nothing achieved in pushing people away and hating people who wouldn’t listen regardless would only make me unhappy. As an adult, I agree.
So it’s been a frustrating eye opener for me.
@LN – I thought Religulous was terrible. I’m agnostic but I found Maher to be even more condescending and rude than usual. Part of making a documentary is allowing the subjects to speak for themselves. Yeah, you ask good questions to produce interesting answers but he came from the stance that anyone who believes in God, regardless of your religion, is mentally ill. Anyone who believed in god and worshiped with any devotion was a clown. Some of the people he found were a little goofy but I was really turned off by how he openly mocked everyone.
What I get from the bible is allegory but I do my best to be respectful to those who read the gospel as the true word of god. I get that most people are seeking to touch the divine the best they can, a worthy goal. I do wish my mother-in-law would stop telling my daughter things like, “God saw your daddy in heaven and knew he needed to be my son,” when asked why her daddy is her daddy. Or the answer to, “Why do I have freckles,” is met with, “God put them there.”
Groan.
As for Mel, yes, I remember him in Mrs. Soffel and thinking he was a hunk of burning love. Then I remember hearing the comment he made about his wife going to hell and thinking he was a tool. Now, I know he is a tool but I don’t think he speaks for all Catholics (or even his dad’s weird sect) nor does he speak for all religious men. It’s cool his wife is going to walk away with half of his fortune.
getting pregnant out of wedlock is supposed to be a “no no” for catholics, and since you know mel gibson is such a good one.. but if this is true then seriously how stupid is he? has has 7 kids already! (i believe its 7) and the sugar tits comment still makes me laugh too, lol
Some people just don’t understand the concept of religion. The very concept of the Christianity, for example, is supposed to be tolerance, forgiveness, love for God and ALL people…I mean, according to Jesus’ teachings. But some people think that they can use their religion to oppress others – those who are not like them, or those who practice a different faith, or those who don’t practice any religion…Who are you to judge other people and tell them that they are going to hell if they don’t believe what you believe or don’t meet your high standards of piety?
I feel for Mel Gibson’s wife – must be tough to have stayed with someone for so many years (her whole life, actually) only to be left for someone else in the end. Not that I needed to read about Mel Gibson’s leaving his wife, cheating on her or telling her she’s going to hell to become dissappointed in him. He lost me as a fan after he made those comments about Jewish people. Being drunk was in no way an excuse for him in that situation, on the contrary, it revealed his true thoughts he had managed to hide (or just not to express so explicitly) when he was sober.
Ani, that is just not right. Not in Columbus during Football season. Gasp! Hubby and I both went to Bowling Green, but when it comes to Football we are all about the Scarlet and Grey. Got the buckeye necklace and everything. Can I have your tickets then
I’m feeling left out on the football thing, y’all. I was raised to genuflect in front of photos of Bear Bryant, but then my family converted to Auburn late in life. I’m still learning the new catechism. I think it goes something like, “Biscuits, gravy, sausage, grits. Beatin’ Saban gives us the…”
Wait. Lost my place.
Angry Army Wife… students get the raw end of the deal with tickets! If I were to get any, it’s for the lame home games. However, my sister, who is an alumni, is lucky to get any… so she always gets my tickets LOL!
I can’t stand football season in Columbus… it’s hopeless to want to go anywhere in the area because everyone’s in town and everything’s insanely busy! I live in the north, by Westerville, and I’m hoping that I’m far enough away from the hoopla!
LOL Minnow.
I guess when you’re a jerk, you’re a jerk all the way?
When I had my first confession, I confessed that “I sneak-watched The Simpsons because my mom said it was a stupid show.” I think the priest was laughing.
Sorry to hear about people’s run-ins with jerky members of various religions. I went to a Catholic school for thirteen years, and everyone there was always very polite about religious differences.
And yeah, like somebody said above, Mel Gibson isn’t a real Catholic, he’s part of some weird sect that doesn’t follow Vatican II.
I’m flying in and out of here today, and have yet to read every single post, but I will! I just wanted to mention a few things on denominational hatred.
I was raised in a Catholic family where we were the minority in a town full of Baptists, Pentecostals, and extreme born again types. I would estimate that about 70% of those people were normal, good people who were happy to embrace anyone who was a Christian (especially if they were aware that Catholics are Christians too, which amazes me that so many people aren’t) and not act as though they were the only ones allowed to get into heaven. The rest were hateful, frightened of anything slightly different, judgemental, self righteous, and sometimes dangerous.
One of my cousins is born again and has cut contact with our family because they are Catholic, and of course, I am the devil incarnate for being an atheist. His parents have not met their granddaughter, and he has alienated all the people that have loved him and been supportive of him all his life.
I have an uncle on the other side of the family who thought it was okay to announce that his mother was going to hell with assassins and criminals, at an Easter family dinner, because she and the rest of the family are Catholic and he’s some other variation of the Judeo-Christian family of religions that apparently has the only tickets to get to heaven. Mind you, my grandmother has never had a negative word for anyone, is one of those people that are good to the core, sincere, and quite frankly, the type of person most of us aspire to be like. That uncle is no longer welcome in my father’s house after that.
A lot of these religions isolate people from everyone around them in this way. It keeps them dependent on their church for all social interaction and creates evangelists of everyone.
I respect peoples’ beliefs, but the moment I get preached at, especially when the loudest preachers are the biggest hypocrites most of the time, I either shut down or melt down because it annoys me that much.
“I respect peoples
OK clearly something isn’t liking me, it cut my post!
Chronic… I agree. I tell people who try to get me to be “born again” that God bore me right the first time. They hate that!
Gee, I kind of like the idea of confession. It encourages humility and reminds us that we’re all sinners, even 5-year-olds. More harm seems to come from believing you’re perfect and living in denial of mistakes.
We all screw up – confession seems like a good way to handle it. Too bad the Episcopal church doesn’t have something like that – I’d be there with bells on. OK, maybe not bells.
Chronic and Ani, the best evangelism I can push is being the best person I can be and telling people how I came to Christ. Pronouncing judgement on others just reeks of pride.
MC Mom – unfortunately, the availability of confession only leads to a feeling of being able to do no wrong, no matter WHAT it is.
I was raised Catholic (not that my family attended church or anything but I was sent to catechism). I never could reconcile the hypocrisy of going to religious school & not going to church. Also, I started at about 4-5 years old & I immediately questioned the validity of teachings that thought women were unworthy and only men could be in charge. I am not a rabid feminist or anything but I always felt (at a minimum) equal to my two brothers but never inferior. I felt that the church was grooming me to be submissive and unquestioning but the boys could do whatever they wanted and that was NOT me in any way.
My family also valued boys much more than girls — supporting sports, etc. if it was a “boy” sport, but ignoring any sports that I was a part of because I was “just a girl”. I was also, as part of an Italian family, expected to help with Sunday dinner at grandma’s every week, beginning with food prep, setting the table, serving the food & cleaning up afterwards. My brothers got a free day to do as they pleased, showed up late for dinner expecting to be served, moved to the TV after dinner while I had to serve them their desserts. All of this because it was they way things are “supposed” to be in a Catholic family.
I will never get over the unfairness of it all & that is what drove me from the church along with their belief that, if a girl has sex, she is a demon & slut but the guy who screws her is a hero! The double-standards are overwhelming and depressing and I would not have survived emotionally unless I got out.
Hey, did ya’ll see on OMG that he stepped out publically with her as his girlfriend?
I’ve suddenly gotten a case of the “don’t cares”.
I want to know what the Catholic church will have to say about his divorce. He already committed adultery, now divorce? He should be excommunicated since he is such a firm and ultra-conservative Catholic but continues to flaunt their rules and beliefs. Seems celebrities also get a special pass from God which says that, if you make a religious movie and are a “star”, you are forever absolved of any future sins. At least, I believe that is what Mel believes.
Julie, I completely understand your antipathy to Catholicism and why you had to get out. I know not all Catholic parishes are like yours, but it must have been tough to grow up in that environment.
I’m not sure, though, why you say that “the availability of confession only leads to a feeling of being able to do no wrong, no matter WHAT it is.” Do you mean that people don’t take confession seriously? Or that the whole process of confession gets people off too easy, so to speak?
I’m interested because I grew up in a perfectionist family where no one talked about anything and making mistakes was something to be ashamed of and hide, not deal with and move on from. And we went to the Unitarian church, which was not helpful in questions of sin.
I have probably mentioned this before, but I read a book recently (and saw the film!) titled “Lord, Save Us From Your Followers”. Dan Merchant, I think. Anyway, one thing he says in it really stuck with me. He’s telling gays at a Pride festival that as a Christian, he feels that the church as a group has really let down the gay community, and that he wants to apologize for that personally, and to tell them not to judge Christ by his (Merchant’s) example, because he (again, Merchant) gets it wrong most of the time. I’m right there with him. I get it wrong more often than right. For me, it’s not about me being great, because I ain’t–it’s about God being great. All the rest of us can do is take a stand when the helpless are being mistreated, speak up for those with no voice, and try not to suck too much ourselves. (That’s found in Second Opinions, Chapter 9, verse 12.)
“All the rest of us can do is take a stand when the helpless are being mistreated, speak up for those with no voice, and try not to suck too much ourselves.”
Amen, Beige! I need to read that book. Humility is something that’s sadly lacking in a lot of the most visible Christian apologists lately, and it’s due for a comeback.
MCMom: “I’m not sure, though, why you say that “the availability of confession only leads to a feeling of being able to do no wrong, no matter WHAT it is.” Do you mean that people don’t take confession seriously? Or that the whole process of confession gets people off too easy, so to speak?”
Both. That the whole process of confession gets people off too easily. Catholics KNOW that all they have to do is confess, so they always have that in their back pocket as a “safety net” against any wrongs they commit. Most people I know don’t take it seriously because it seems like a joke that just telling someone a secret gets them a pass on the sin. There is little disincentive to not do it again.
“I’m interested because I grew up in a perfectionist family where no one talked about anything and making mistakes was something to be ashamed of and hide, not deal with and move on from.”
I grew up in the same type of family. You hid your sins from the family/community but confessed them (since we didn’t go to church, this made it difficult for us) to a priest. That way you get to save face & soul at the same time. I believe this is the whole purpose for secrecy, except, I am sure it was also used as blackmail in the early days as well. Also, there is something that they have brought back recently (I can’t remember what it is called) that is something like carbon credits except for it is “sin” credits. If you “purchase” these in advance, you are absolved of your wrongdoing in the future. How does this work? Only the rich can sin but us poor peasants must suffer?
Personally with regards to religion; I became an alcoholic/anorexic and my brother converted to Mormonism. We both found God in our own way but my catholic grandmother thinks i got the better end of the deal;-)
Julie, interesting, I never thought about confession that way before. But then, as you might guess, I take sin pretty seriously. Call it the legacy of perfectionism.
I don’t know whether confessed sins were used as blackmail in the church, but they certainly were held against you and thrown back in your face in my family.
Aren’t those “sin credits” the reason Martin Luther nailed 95 theses to the church door lo these many years ago? Just sayin’.
Julie, confession is not a get out of jail free card. The priest always says to you is, “Go and sin no more.” Roman Catholic doctrine has nothing good to say about people who think they can just wipe the slate clean with no intention of living better lives.
“What part of ’sin no more’ didn’t you understand?”
Joshua Bar Joseph, “LAMB”
Did they seriously bring back indulgences? Now there’s a quick money scheme…
Sin much? Worried about your dead relative’s soul? The friendly priest/bishop/cardinal will offer the appropriate prayers, for a fee of course…
I used to love Mel Gibson’s movies in the eighties. Then all the sludge started leaking out and he just looked uglier and uglier. It was only a matter of time before Robyn dumped him. And with no pre-nup in sight you just know it’s gonna be bloody.
Pass the popcorn, please…
“Or that the whole process of confession gets people off too easy, so to speak?”
McMom, I believe that it lets people off too easy if they did something REALLY bad (like Mel has…adultury-breaking one of the 10 commandments and divorce which is bad in the eyes of the church) and they feel all they need to do is confess. I was taught at an early age that confession would make it all go away.
I just wonder how many people confess who are TRULY sorry for what they’ve done, and how many confess for a pass?
While you Catholics may see the confessional system as flawed, the Protestant system is even easier to exploit.
Under the Born Again plan, you send up a little silent prayer ONCE in your life and you’re in like Flynn for eternity, no matter how many little old ladies you mug.
At least y’all live with the threat of accidentally keeling over with a couple of unresolved sins on the docket…
Minnow… I can’t stand that plan either. Nothing can take the place of geniune repentance.
It has its benefits, Ani. Term life insurance and a Popeil Pocket Fisherman are included.
Fozzy: “What part of ’sin no more’ didn’t you understand?” – They may TELL you that, but you have to DO it.
I understand that is what the priest says as they dole out their Hail Mary’s & Our Fathers, but do you think most people truly follow that sentence? (Kind of like saying “go forth an murder no more” in a court of law. Does that stop crime?) If it were so, then no one would ever have to confess again because, after the first time, they shouldn’t commit any sins. But, unfortunately, they believe that you are sinner every single day, which is why they believe you have to confess on a regular basis.
But Julie, you *are* a sinner every single day. Just because the priest says “go and sin no more” doesn’t mean you don’t sin, or indeed that you are able to stop sinning. That’s the underlying belief of Christianity – that humanity is fallen, and can’t help sinning, and the only way to stop sinning is through Christ. Expecting people never to sin again after the priest tells them not to is like expecting everyone to grow a third arm. Just ain’t gonna happen.
Thing is, we attempt to create a black and white world in a world that is already made up of a lot of shades of gray. There are basic black and white things in that world, but beyond the basics, there are gray areas that result in differences of opinions and views on morality. Every faith has a slightly different definition of sin when you do get beyond those black and white basics that make you either a good or bad person within the context of that faith.
No matter who your god is, you’re going to make bad decisions in your life. You are sometimes going to do the wrong thing despite your best intentions, and you will have to face some gray areas in which circumstances make you question what you have been taught. No one is perfect. But, a person that lives their life in a way that is positive and without all the self righteous crap about how positive he is, whether they do so because their god says they should or because they want to be able to sleep well at night, is a person you can respect.
Mel Gibson’s words about his Episcopalian and soon to be ex were out of line, especially since he himself is unable to live by the rules he chooses to believe are the ones that will get him into heaven.
I’d just like to second what Tal said … I went to Catholic school for 14 years (preschool through high school) and was never taught that members of other religions were automatically bound for hellfire and damnation. We were always taught to be respectful of others’ religion. Then again, I live in Massachusetts, where even the Catholics tend to be liberal…
Julie, I don’t want to offend you, but I take issue with your characterization of confession, particularly since you say that your family wasn’t very religious and you’re no longer Catholic. I respect that choice, but I don’t think you are in a position to be able to say “Catholics don’t take confession seriously.” Presumably you don’t realize how insulting it is to a practicing Catholic (or even a lapsed Catholic, like me, who still believes in certain aspects of the faith) to call confession a “joke” or “telling someone a secret” or even “a safety net” as you call it.
Confession is a sacrament, and while it is no longer as integral to the lives of most Catholics as it used to be before Vatican II, most Catholics do take it pretty seriously. The process of confessing something that is weighing your conscience to a representative of God and his forgiveness is serious and difficult, regardless of what the actual “sin” is. Also, priests hearing confession are supposed to encourage the person confessing to own up to and accept the consequences of his or her sin – e.g., if a man confesses to a murder, the priest would urge him to turn himself in; if a woman confesses to cheating on her husband, the priest would recommend that she tell her husband and ask for his forgiveness (and perhaps that they go to marital counseling). It’s not just “say two Hail Marys” or even saying “go and sin no more” – for more serious sins, confession is meant to be a step in a longer process of repentance and reconciliation.
At least, that’s what I was taught, and as I said, I had this stuff in school for 14 straight years.
Also, indulgences haven’t been “brought back” recently; they have always been available, but they haven’t been very widely used since the Middle Ages, when they were so badly abused. They cannot be purchased, and they’re not “sin credits” that you can use to “offset” future sins the way people use carbon credits. I’m at my limit of coherence for this early hour of the day, but this website is a fairly concise explanation of what indulgences are and aren’t: http://www.catholic.com/library/Myths_About_Indulgences.asp
Uh, and just to get back on topic… Mel Gibson. Argh. Has he been getting increasingly crazy over the last 5-10 years, or just worse at hiding it?
I think after making Passion of the Christ the media simply stopped covering for him.
Afterall, raging alcoholism behind the wheel and spreading VD across the San Fernando Valley are totally excusable, but right wingership? That’s criminal.
Minnow, you so totally beat me to that.
He and Tom Cruise used to be so hot, then they stepped up on these strange psuedo-religious soapboxes and started spouting some real crazy stuff and… it’s repulsive.
I’ve enjoyed reading each comment here.
I’m a preacher’s son, and am so glad I am one. I’ve discovered repentence and living for the Lord has been only a privaledge in my life. Although as a person of faith I have still sinned, but certainly don’t want too. I’ve found comfort in times of trouble, and have found a relationship with God to be a humbling experience.
Its a lie to think a person has to sin every day. Jesus gives mankind a way out through both His sacrifice, and ressurection. If we do sin Jesus is our advocate if a heart of true repentence is found.
Mel Gibson does believe, and has a form of being Godly. But has not found or has denied the power of God that can go with faith. Jesus said we’d have temptations and trouble, but to be of good cheer because he’d over come the world. Evidently Mel Gibson has either rebelling or has not commited every thing to Jesus.
Its well worth it but there is a cost to pay to live a Christian life. I’ve found its true that taking up one’s cross and following Him and denying one’s self is the better way of living for the Lord. He is a God who can break the chains and fetters of sin and darkness. Of that I have no doubt.
God is an able God if….if one turns away from sin and discovers the new mind set he gives to any one who will come to Him with a contrite and repenting heart.
If Mel Gibson ends up dying in his sins, and hopefully he will not be foolish enough to do that, then he’ll face God lost and undone.