If you’re just returning from your two-week vacation on Saturn, last week David Letterman made a creepy joke about Sarah Palin’s kids. Some people got real mad about it, and other people got real mad about her reaction to it.
Last night Letterman apologized:
This is his second apology, assuming you thought the first one qualified. Sarah Palin has accepted. Now the people who hate her will find reasons to still hate her, and the people who hate him will find reasons to still hate him. But it’s nice that he finally realizes it’s really not cool to attack somebody by insulting their young children.
Especially for getting “knocked up,” when every night you come home to the little boy whose mommy and daddy didn’t get married until he was 6.
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Hoo-yah!!
I don’t hate DL, I just think that he’s a boring old liberal who did a very stupid, vindictive, mean, and left-type thing to try to avert the attention from Conan’s new show over to his. Too bad for him that it flew back into his face as he was throwing it out the window in the drive-by hit.
P.S. I also agree with some people that think the ballplayer deserves an apology from DL too, since he kind of insinuated that he hits on jail-bait.
And, for calling Palin slutty.
And, for calling flight attendants slutty.
Aw heck, just apologize for livin’.
I am still waiting on him to apologize for calling her slutty. Try calling Michelle slutty and see where he gets to. Better yet, Obama’s mother. Al Sharton and Jesse will be calling for him to be fired, just like Imus.
I have never watched this show and I will never tune in to it in the future. Hey Mario, where are you now? You only defend certain females?
HuffPo has a comprehensive article on SP’s hypocrisy over the comment. Interesting that Conan O’Brien said something really similar last year about the two younger daughters and she didn’t complain.
So now she’s supposed to keep track of every single crappy thing somebody says about her kids. Maybe it’s not her fault they’re saying it?
This apology is certainly better than the first one. Especially because of where he admitted that if he had perceived the joke in the same way, he too would have been outraged and most importantly for accepting that when it comes to jokes, perception is more important than intent. It almost makes it believable even that he really didn’t know it was Willow at the game assuming it’s true that he didn’t know either daughter was.
However…
While that part of the joke may be settled, or at least more so than it was especially with Sarah’s acceptance, I myself am a little bit upset about his comment towards flight attendants still. My father has worked as a flight attendant at least a fair number of times before (he generally prefers working outside loading and unloading bags even in the dead of South Dakota winter, but he does just about everything but fly and air traffic control) and I don’t know if he would appreciate the whole ’slutty’ comment. Especially because it implies that flight attendant = woman. That’s basically the same mentality as nurse = woman, doctor = man or teacher = woman, professor = man and so forth. But then again, I suppose most comedy today relies heavily on stereotypes so, for better or worse, most people would accept it at least in a joke format.
Heheh, yes, I’m sure the Huffy Post has an article on that, I’d bet my life on it. X-D
Gee, the Huffpo saying that Sarah is now complaining. NEver would have thought that they would say something about it. I am sure Perez also made sure it made front page and painted Sarah in a bad light as well. Shocker.
In his defense, Letterman admitted the joke would have been twice as funny if Samson Obama were substituted for A-Rod.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/world/europe/13samson.html
I imagine Huffpo would blame the Central Park Jogger (victim of gang rape and nearly-fatal assault) if they discovered she was a Republican. They’d probably say the chickens were coming home to roost, because she deserved it. Typical.
Misbehaved?
When my boys misbehaved they got put in a corner with their nose to the wall.
All he got was a public razzing, and most likely a ratings jump.
Damn, if this is how he apologizes, it’s no wonder it took him so long to find a wife.
First off, why make a joke about a daughter in attendance if he didn’t know that one of the girls was there that day?
Secondly, why check Bristol’s age if he didn’t see the flaw in the joke?
Seriously Dave, please stop trying to explain yourself. The cat’s not gonna get any deader.
But that 6 year old’s mommy and daddy were both 30+ when he was born and not high school students. Difference.
And he thought he was making a joke about an 18 year old woman, not her 14 year old teenage sister. Again, a difference. I’m glad he took the higher road and apologized after realizing what people thought he was saying but anyone with half a brain should’ve realized the intent of his joke was again Bristol Palin and not Willow Palin.
So anyone with half a brain should realize that if I say “the guy who posted on this thread at spot 13 is an idiot,” I was actually writing about some other person that posted something somewhere else on the site, NOT the person that was in the specific spot my entire statement hinged on.
Maybe it is because Conan is usually funny and Dave hasn’t been funny for years.
I don’t see Dave as taking the high road, I see it as enough people complained. And thank you T. Princess, because I too must have been one of those “idiots”
Being?
See above.
So will Bill Maher apologize now? These ‘comics’ are pathetic.
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jarone/2009/06/15/bill-maher-real-time-real-man/
There’s only three or four years difference between President Obama’s oldest daughter and Willow right? I’m sure someone can find humor in His daughters right? I mean c’mon it’s just a joke!
Jenn,
That reminds me. How come whenever people attack the line in Sarah’s reply that she thought it would be wise to keep Willow away from him, they always mention Letterman’s age? It’s like they think Sarah made a comment about perverted old men. I think the real concern in her comment had something to do with it being wise to keep a minor away from somebody who allegedly (at the very least) makes a joke not only about sex with minors, but about that specific minor in question. I think the critics have more of the “fake outrage” that Maher mentioned if they’re going to suggest ageism in Sarah’s comment
Derek, to me it didn’t matter which, or even whose, daughter he was talking about, it was just plain pathetic all the way around.
In the late 1700s, Willaim Wilberforce wished for a “reformation of manners” in society…it seems as if our current society and self-centered culture needs such a reformation, with a return to common decency. Not bland boring complacency, just better manners.
I agree with Jannah, common decency is sadly missing these days. I am always amazed how it is now politically-correct to bash someone only based on their politics or views of life. David Letterman was quite crass towards the Palin family twice; first for the joke and then for the lame “I am sorry that you are offended” excuse he offered. He could had canned the whole thing in his first excuse but he dint. His bad.
It is also good to remember that Mr. Letterman did properly excused himself when sponsors of his show were considering leaving him to dry. I guess they have a better sense of decency that him.
When a politician’s teenage daugther gets pregnant at 17 and has a kid at 18, sorry that’s fair game to prod a joke at. Public forum and all that. The man made the mistake of not checking which daugther would be with the governor and seems to be pretty sorry for a joke that turned out with a horrific punchline (not his intention) as opposed to joking around about an 18 year old woman (his intention). What’s that? Joking about a woman’s poor choice in life is “not polite” and tasteless? How about we grow a tougher skin, the man’s a comedian. It would’ve been equally funny if he spoke about John Edward’s mistress getting knocked up.
David Letterman may have had a child out of wedlock but he did so with a woman he was with for 17 years (at the time of birth of his son) and has since married. There’s a difference when your partner of 17 years gets pregnant compared to a 17 YEAR OLD getting knocked up by her boyfriend of a year, in high school. I doubt the Letterman’s were terrified about what would happen to their future when that pregnancy test showed a plus sign.
Does your mom still turn tricks down by the docks? Relax, it’s just a hilarious joke.
That must be why it took him six years to marry her. And it sure is a great reason why a teenage girl is fair game. You have the kind of logic that is not.
Darek – Chelsea Clinton is older than I am, and she’s STILL considered to be off-limits. It’s different because Palin’s kid got pregnant? Really enlightened liberal attitude you’ve got there buddy, I thought you were the gay rights activist? Is it now liberal doctrine to spit on unwed mothers? Cause I kinda thought you guys were the ones who wanted to give them and their kids a free ride from cradle to grave? See, that’s the hypocrisy from the left that bothers me to no end.
Single mothers (regardless of age) have been lauded as heroes by the left for my entire life, but when it comes to a Republican’s kid doing it, suddenly the ballgame changes. And frankly buddy, I might not know you very well, but I’d wager to say that the decision that girl made to carry the baby to full term and raise it herself (despite all the negative attention that decision had heaped on her) is about six shades braver than anything you’ve ever had to do.
It makes me angry when people blame Sarah Palin for her daughter getting pregnant. I’m sure she taught her to be abstinent, but Bristol is her own person, minor or not. What was Sarah supposed to do, lock her in a tower until she turned thirty? Whatever happened to sexual liberation for young girls? Oh wait, not if you’re going to have the baby or if you’re Christian. If you claim you’re trying to be morally good, then when you fail we can all point and laugh. Jerks.
And call me terribly old-fashioned but I feel sorrier for the teenager’s baby. An adult should know better than to have a child out of wedlock, whereas a teenager is still growing and learning.
I have to stop lurking and comment on this one.
As one of the proto feminists, probably born many years before most of the posters here and certainly many who now call themselves feminists, I have to ask…..Is this as far as we have come? Is this what feminisim has devolved to?
That a perverted old rich dude can make nasty snarky jokes about rape of a 14 year old and it’s funny??? That it’s ok to pretend that he really meant an 18 year old woman so that makes it ok? Or that since she has made the brave choice to bear and raise her child out of wedlock that she deserves all the name calling and redicule? Didn’t we, decades ago, get past blaming the woman who is exploited or rapes for bringing it on herself by wearing mini skirts or whatever? If conservative men are such cave men and liberal men are so progressive, why aren’t the cavemen writing about hatef**king women instead of the liberal men? I can’t imagine Sean Hannity or Michael Savage et al saying these kind of degrading mysogynistic remarks. How can modern feminists actually condone this?? Other than a vague vacuous “Oh they really shouldn’t have…”
Feminism today is truly nothing more that a constant screech to keep it a “womans right” to violently dismember her unborn child. Nothing else matters to them.
And Derek, Lettermans and his writers were well aware that is was 14 year old willow who was visiting with Sarah Palin. He and his writers had been writing material about their trip all week. So you are dumb enough to believe that after all those days of knowing it was Willow, he/they suddenly forgot that it wasn’t Bristol?
Didn’t anyone every tell you not to drink your bong water???
Simon Scowl –
“That must be why it took him six years to marry her.”
What does that matter?
“And it sure is a great reason why a teenage girl is fair game. You have the kind of logic that is not.” – I said nothing about Willow being fair game, I said Bristol, the woman, the 18 year old “in the eyes of the law” woman. It’s an adult poking fun at another adult.
Scott F.
“Darek – Chelsea Clinton is older than I am, and she’s STILL considered to be off-limits. It’s different because Palin’s kid got pregnant? Really enlightened liberal attitude you’ve got there buddy, I thought you were the gay rights activist? Is it now liberal doctrine to spit on unwed mothers? Cause I kinda thought you guys were the ones who wanted to give them and their kids a free ride from cradle to grave? See, that’s the hypocrisy from the left that bothers me to no end. ” – I think it’s funny that a woman that preaches abstienence as a possibly way to prevent pregnancy has a 17 year old daugther get pregnant and have a baby by the time she’s 18. That’s almost ironic. Which is a component of satire. Satirical things are funny.
What does me being a liberal minded gay dude have anything to do with laughing at irony? I got that Mr. Letterman was referencing Bristol in his joke and unfortunately he was misinformed or never found out who Sarah Palin was traveling with. I can distinguish between comedy and a mistake. He made a mistake and apologized for it. The joke’s true intention is still pretty funny. I dont want to get into a whole spiel about unwed mothers personally because I dont think there is any shame in being an unwed mother. Being an unwed TEENAGE mother is clearly a mistake and not a great example of something little girls should aspire to be. Would I argue that teenage mothers require more aid than unwed, adult mothers? Yes. Will the daugther of a Governor have to worry about how her child will be taken care of? No. So I have no sympathy for a woman who made a bad mistake and instead of learning why she may have been led to make that mistake, turns around, places a scarlet U on her bodice and tells girls to “do what I say not what I do” or else you’ll get an unwanted pregnancy.
“Single mothers (regardless of age) have been lauded as heroes by the left for my entire life, but when it comes to a Republican’s kid doing it, suddenly the ballgame changes.” – Well get raised properly by a single mother that has to take on some of the worst jobs to support her family and maybe you’ll understand why they are lauded as heroes. Single parenthood is nothing people want to fall into – which is why it’s funny an advocate of abstienence had a baby at 18. And a side note there chief, I said the joke would’ve been equally funny if it was John Howard’s mistress being made fun of – right or left, I don’t give a sh*t.
“And frankly buddy, I might not know you very well” – you don’t know me at all – “but I’d wager to say that the decision that girl made to carry the baby to full term and raise it herself (despite all the negative attention that decision had heaped on her) is about six shades braver than anything you’ve ever had to do.” – It’s funny you think she’s raising it herself. A governor’s salary is a nice one. The girl may in fact raise her child to be an upstanding citizen but she won’t ever have to worry about where money is coming from for the rest of her life.
>A governor’s salary is a nice one. The girl may in fact
>raise her child to be an upstanding citizen but she won’t
>ever have to worry about where money is coming from for
>the rest of her life.
According to Wikipedia, the Governor of Alaska makes $125,000 a year. Holy wah, you’re right! It’s like hitting the Powerball! That grandkid is set for life, provided Sarah and her other family members don’t use any of it for bills or expenses or food or anything. And provided she stays governor the rest of the kid’s life…
Remember when the Hillary campaign said Chelsea was going to campaign for Hillary but not answer any questions? Or even talk?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22451068/
“It’s funny you think she’s raising it herself. A governor’s salary is a nice one. The girl may in fact raise her child to be an upstanding citizen but she won’t ever have to worry about where money is coming from for the rest of her life.”
I love that line, I really do. It encapsulates the entire liberal thought process perfectly!
Class, notice the (thinly) veiled disdain for the ‘rich’ (trust me, she’s probably making less doing this than she was on TV). A rich single mother, which happens to be the one BEST equipped to deal with a child, is to be looked down upon. As a single dad, let me tell you, I would trade my situation for Bristol’s any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
You see this all the time. Rich people couldn’t possibly take an interest in the lives of their children – they all let their nannies raise them! That’s stereotyping man, and as my democratic friends constantly remind me, stereotyping is wrong. Actually, many people use their financial independence to spend more time with their children, whereas poor to middle-class children tend to see their parents less as they have to hold down two jobs to make ends meet. I’m not saying that’s not noble, but it’s a fact of life that as parents we can’t be two places at once. Statistically, wealthy mothers are far more likely to take time off to raise a new baby, as they can afford to lose the income.
My point is that it’s ironic (see, I do understand irony!) that you ripped on her for being rich after you pointed out how idiotic it was that she had a child as a teenager. See, because the reason that most people look down on teens having children is because they can’t support them – and you just kinda admitted she’s perfectly capable of doing so. Funny how that works.
Daddy, where do apologies come from?
You know what’s funny also? People who advocate birth control become grandparents unexpectedly as well. Sometimes it’s BC failure and sometimes it’s on purpose.
Why are liberals pro-education when it comes to sex and pro-abstinence when it comes to guns?
I read the HuffPo article re other attacks. I’m wondering how much she was constrained by the McCain campaign.
At the present time she has no responsibility to anyone else save her family and constituents.
I’m sure CBS isn’t concerned with broadcasting inside HER White House…yet.
sarah palin should be happy david letterman is even keeping her in the news.
If anyone on here read the article on Bristol you would know that besides going to school and getting her diploma she also works for the babies formula and diapers. She did not attend her prom because her baby came first. She may live with her mom and dad, but she is raising her baby, not just expecting someone to come along and do it for her. That is what raising someone right is all about. Teenagers rebel all the time. You can tell them to not do something and they will do it to spite you. The fact that her parents taught her the meaning of life and responsibilities is something that most liberals know nothing about. Just look at this past election. “Obama will make all of my money problems go away” People think that those that work hard are the ones that have to pay for those who do not work. How fair is that? I work so others can live? I give to charity already, moreso than most of my liberal friends.
Darek, quit trying to have it every way. Either Bristol’s and adult or a teenager. You corrected Simon, who called her a “teenager,” by insisting that she’s an adult, and adults are okay to be made fun of. If she’s an adult “in the eyes of the law,” as you put it, then there’s as much cause to make fun of Letterman’s adult girlfriend having a baby out of wedlock as there is to make fun of Bristol. But then you call her a teenage mother and point out snidely how she got pregnant at 17, so which is it? You said “Would I argue that teenage mothers require more aid than unwed, adult mothers? Yes.”, so at this point in your argument, which are you classifying her as: a teenage mother or an unwed, adult mother? Since you seem to use either one depending on which is convenient to your point in that particular sentence.
And is it funny or not? You very accurately state that teenage pregnancy “is clearly a mistake and not a great example” and “single parenthood is nothing people want to fall into.” Yes, I completely agree! So I fail to see how such a serious thing happening to someone should be mocked. Because she believed in abstinence but didn’t practice it? So people who knowingly engage in a lifestyle with risks, while realizing that it would be better to avoid, and suffer consequences from it should be made fun of? Because the irony is that they know better? Well, let’s get with the AIDS jokes! I bet those suckers believed in “safe sex” too. And those idiots that lived below sea level in New Orleans when Hurricane Katrina hit! I bet they believed in flood insurance, and look where it got them. LOL!! Funny stuff!
And how is this statement not contradictory: “So I have no sympathy for a woman who made a bad mistake and instead of learning why she may have been led to make that mistake, turns around, places a scarlet U on her bodice and tells girls to “do what I say not what I do” or else you’ll get an unwanted pregnancy.” The fact that she is now trying to bring awareness to the consequences of not sticking to abstinence means that she did, in fact, “learn why she may have been led to make that mistake.” She knows exactly what she did wrong and admits it without trying to look like a hero or a victim, the way you paint her. I don’t see what’s wrong with spreading a message to try and prevent other people from making the same mistake you did. If that was the case then why are we not nasty towards people with lung cancer that now speak against cigarettes? Or any woman that speaks for MADD because they lost their child in a drunk driving accident?
Frankly, I think it’s because people HATE abstinence promoters. I don’t know why the idea offends you so much, I really don’t, but for some reason it triggers a raging vile reaction in most people. Just look how the Jonas Brothers are regarded by most of Hollywood. There’s not an article that mentions them that doesn’t at some point sarcastically remark on their promise rings. Here’s news for you: abstinence works! Not everybody can stick with it all the way, but that doesn’t mean it’s flawed and should be disregarded or mocked. It’s a 100% guaranteed real solution to real problems, if it is truly followed. But for some reason people like you loathe it, and I’ll never understand why.
I appluad Bristol for now speaking out and saying that if teenagers knew what the consequences for having sex were then they would not have sex. Seems to me that she would be a great spokesperson to try to get the message out. Why is that such a bad thing? Trojan Princess had another great example about MADD. I bet those mothers would love to have their kids back with them, but their next best thing to try to make people understand that there are consequences to your actions. I know of single mothers who work hard and never look for a handout, and they raise great kids. There are others I know who never work because they make more money sitting at home and living off of the state. Who sets the better example? We have a serious problem with generational poverty and ignorance because of these people.
And yes, I think it is the pot calling the kettle black that David Letterman makes fun of a young teenage mother who did take responsibility for her actions when it took him 6 years to finally marry the mother of his child. He likes those double standard tactics that the liberals are famous for.
CHABURCHAK- “According to Wikipedia, the Governor of Alaska makes $125,000 a year. Holy wah, you’re right! It’s like hitting the Powerball! That grandkid is set for life, provided Sarah and her other family members don’t use any of it for bills or expenses or food or anything. And provided she stays governor the rest of the kid’s life…” – So wait what? $125,000/year plus benefits plus her husband’s income – that’s pretty good for a family of 5 or 6.
Scott F.
“Class, notice the (thinly) veiled disdain for the ‘rich’ (trust me, she’s probably making less doing this than she was on TV).” – Going to stop you right there, I’m not ‘rich’ but I am well off. Debt and monthly payments are not a problem for me AND I won’t criticize anyone for making a terrific living if they’ve studied hard to attain that living.
“A rich single mother, which happens to be the one BEST equipped to deal with a child, is to be looked down upon. As a single dad, let me tell you, I would trade my situation for Bristol’s any day of the week and twice on Sunday. ” – I’m not disagreeing with this. My whole point is that Bristol Palin will NOT be facing the same hardships you or other single parents will or have already.
“You see this all the time. Rich people couldn’t possibly take an interest in the lives of their children – they all let their nannies raise them! That’s stereotyping man, and as my democratic friends constantly remind me, stereotyping is wrong. Actually, many people use their financial independence to spend more time with their children, whereas poor to middle-class children tend to see their parents less as they have to hold down two jobs to make ends meet. I’m not saying that’s not noble, but it’s a fact of life that as parents we can’t be two places at once. Statistically, wealthy mothers are far more likely to take time off to raise a new baby, as they can afford to lose the income” – But these wealthy mothers are not wealthy mothers on their own accord. They are wealthy because their husbands or families are wealthy. Will these children see more of their mothers than low-wage families, sure, but what does that matter? Bristol is lucky to be her mother’s daugther, if she were anyone else other than Sarah Palin’s kid, you’d think her one of those unwed moms that liberals believe should have a hand out all their lives.
“My point is that it’s ironic (see, I do understand irony!)” – I never stated you didnt
“that you ripped on her for being rich after you pointed out how idiotic it was that she had a child as a teenager.” – I rip on her for being an advocate of abstienence education and having a child before she’s married. I’m jealous that she’s rich. And I’m thankful her kid will have it pretty easy because Grandma can take care of most expenses.
“See, because the reason that most people look down on teens having children is because they can’t support them – and you just kinda admitted she’s perfectly capable of doing so. Funny how that works.” – If you believe grandma’s money = mommy’s money, then that statement makes sense and I can’t argue with it.
So that makes it okay to humiliate her on national TV.
Do any of you realize Our Messiah, Obama was born to a 17 year old unwed mother……Guess its fair game to insult his mom and more importantly his young daughters since afterall they are in the pubic eye now so its fair game…..I mean look at Slutty Grandma, those poor kids will turn out bad, grandma was a slut, based on the logic above, the apple does not fall far from the tree….
(Sarcasm off)
“You corrected Simon, who called her a “teenager,” by insisting that she’s an adult, and adults are okay to be made fun of. If she’s an adult “in the eyes of the law,” as you put it, then there’s as much cause to make fun of Letterman’s adult girlfriend having a baby out of wedlock as there is to make fun of Bristol.” – Yeah, no. Confirming that Bristol Palin is an adult makes the accusations that David Letterman was advocating or making fun of child rape null and void. His joke was intended towards Bristol, not her younger sister – that is why I corrected Simon. Regardless of what side of the political spectrum you fall on – there is a huge difference between an 18 year old high school student and 30+ year old woman having a child.
“But then you call her a teenage mother and point out snidely how she got pregnant at 17, so which is it? You said “Would I argue that teenage mothers require more aid than unwed, adult mothers? Yes.”, so at this point in your argument, which are you classifying her as: a teenage mother or an unwed, adult mother? Since you seem to use either one depending on which is convenient to your point in that particular sentence.” – I wasn’t referring to Bristol Palin, Scott F. made a comment on unwed teenage mothers and I was addressing that. Bristol Palin had a kid when she was 18, making her an adult. I’ve stated that point over and over again. As an adult she’s fair game. Is she still pretty young to be having a child – you bet.
“And is it funny or not? You very accurately state that teenage pregnancy “is clearly a mistake and not a great example” and “single parenthood is nothing people want to fall into.” Yes, I completely agree! So I fail to see how such a serious thing happening to someone should be mocked.” – when that person advocates abstinence, and then gets pregnant, that’s pretty funny. Still serious, still an important issue but still pretty snarky.
“Because she believed in abstinence but didn’t practice it? So people who knowingly engage in a lifestyle with risks, while realizing that it would be better to avoid, and suffer consequences from it should be made fun of? Because the irony is that they know better? Well, let’s get with the AIDS jokes! I bet those suckers believed in “safe sex” too. And those idiots that lived below sea level in New Orleans when Hurricane Katrina hit! I bet they believed in flood insurance, and look where it got them. LOL!! Funny stuff!” Interesting points but you equated teen pregnancy (more of a social issue) with an AIDS epidemic and global catastrophe. There’s a bit of a difference there. Poking fun (not screeching “BWAHAHAHA! YOU IDIOT! WHAT A RIOT! LAAAAAAAA-HOOOOOOOOOO-SSEEEEER”) at an abstinence advocate getting pregnant is simply a comedic effect. A joke. Slapstick comedy. One, two punch…line. Jesus Christ I thought conservatives were the ones with the tougher skins.
“The fact that she is now trying to bring awareness to the consequences of not sticking to abstinence means that she did, in fact, “learn why she may have been led to make that mistake.” She knows exactly what she did wrong and admits it without trying to look like a hero or a victim, the way you paint her. I don’t see what’s wrong with spreading a message to try and prevent other people from making the same mistake you did. If that was the case then why are we not nasty towards people with lung cancer that now speak against cigarettes? Or any woman that speaks for MADD because they lost their child in a drunk driving accident?” Well for starters, not all forms of sex will result in pregnancy and should therefore not be completely avoided. Where as cigarettes, everywhere, will kill you and drunk driving, regardless of how much you’ve had to drink or where you are driving, will get you or someone else killed. If she were to show teenagers how to slip a condom on a banana or explain to teenagers (whom, I’m assuming will want to have their first sexual experience with ANOTHER teenager) that there are other forms of sexual contact that will not give you a baby – mutual masturbation, oral sex with protection, heavy petting, experimenting with sex toys, etc, etc – then she would have no complaint from me. Most teenagers will have sex no matter what you tell them (and that’s fine, so long as they aren’t abusing anyone and being safe); abstinence education leads to teenagers engaging in unsafe sex practices. Tell a teenager you can’t do this, ever, and they will do it to spite you (as angry army wife pointed out); tell a teenager you can do certain things, slowly and when you’re reading, with the right person and with the right equipment, and they will do it when they are ready.
“Frankly, I think it’s because people HATE abstinence promoters. I don’t know why the idea offends you so much, I really don’t, but for some reason it triggers a raging vile reaction in most people. Just look how the Jonas Brothers are regarded by most of Hollywood. There’s not an article that mentions them that doesn’t at some point sarcastically remark on their promise rings. Here’s news for you: abstinence works! Not everybody can stick with it all the way, but that doesn’t mean it’s flawed and should be disregarded or mocked. It’s a 100% guaranteed real solution to real problems, if it is truly followed. But for some reason people like you loathe it, and I’ll never understand why.”
I would LOVE to have this conversation in deeper detail but abstinence education does not work. We can go back and forth with that, but I say we agree to disagree. Will not having sex 100% of the time guarantee you not get a baby 100% of the time – sure. I can’t argue with that but that’s the equivalent as saying staying inside your house 100% of the time will ensure you will never have to speak to other human beings 100% of the time. It’s true but it leaves you dissatisfied with life.
Bristol wasn’t there. You somehow think Palin should have given the benefit of the doubt, to a guy who just insulted her daughter, that he really meant her other daughter. And therefore she has no cause to respond. It’s a good thing you’ll never have children.
TrojanPrincess said: “Frankly, I think it’s because people HATE abstinence promoters. I don’t know why the idea offends you so much, I really don’t, but for some reason it triggers a raging vile reaction in most people.”
I agree, and I have a sneaking suspicion that it’s because it forces those of us who don’t or didn’t practice or attempt abstinence, and who ended up with regrets or bad experiences, to confront the fact that the “if it feels good, do it” mindset isn’t always the most mature or healthy one to have. Apparently, it’s hard to be a grownup and have self-control, and people hate to be reminded of all that boring grownup responsibility stuff.
OTOH, I read an interesting post by a liberal feminist who posits that attacking abstinence as uncool or stupid is just a simple means of ensuring a continuing stream of pubescent sex objects for consumption by the patriarchy.
So there you go. Back on topic – I find it interesting that Letterman decided to hang his apology on perception versus intent, when it seems obvious all along that his intent was for us to perceive the obvious (to those of Letterman’s political bent) message that a republican female is worthy of nothing but scorn. In that light, the joke was perceived exactly as it was intended, and no apology should have been necessary…
Regardless of all the verbose I have read for the last 15 minutes, Letterman told a very bad joke and thought he could discard common decency by blaming the target’s mother for her lack of humor. He failed.
We can spin, twist and flip it so many times over, David Letterman and the staff of his show thought they could get away with it and then the whole thing blew up in their faces.
Let’s hope they learn some humility.
I don’t have the time to reply in full right now, but I will say two things quickly:
1) You seem to suggest that Bristol was a big abstinence advocate before getting pregnant, thus the hypocrisy and irony (and you would be correct if it were true), but I think it has only been since her pregnancy that she has been vocal about it. I’ll stand corrected if you can find that she was speaking out against pre-marital sex before it was discovered that she was pregnant. She was raised that way, but obviously didn’t embrace it for herself and now has learned why she should have listened to her parents. So I don’t think it’s fair to call her an abstinence advocate that got pregnant. Many people become advocates of something after they have learned their lesson the hard way, and it is admirable that they would then admit it and try to bring awareness to the issue in an attempt to save others from their same fate. But if they’ve changed their ways truly, it doesn’t make them hypocrites. Unless of course they knowingly continue to live the same lifestyle at the same time they’re speaking out against it (see Al Gore). If Bristol becomes pregnant again NOW, then you will definitely be right about her.
And 2) virgins are in no way dissatisfied with life. Abstinence protects against far more things than just pregnancy, and it helps keep the focus on healthy spiritual and emotional and psychological relationships. Just because the pressure is too great for most people, doesn’t mean we should give up trying to promote a clean lifestyle. If we were to give up and just assume that kids are going to partake in all the potentially-dangerous activities that we discourage them from, we should offer them classes on how to best drive while buzzed, or how to cheat with the least chance of getting caught, or how to filter your cigarettes to be slightly less unhealthy. As you said, I would LOVE to have a deeper conversation on the topic (I being someone who was given an abstinence-only education, embraced it for myself, and haven’t regretted it in the least; but am appalled at the level of cruel hostility I receive when people find out that I’m a virgin).
Guys, can’t you see, no matter how many facts you present to a liberal they will never accept them unless they support thier candidate or political ideals. These are the same people who to this day don’t see any problem with Clinton chaeting on his wife and lying to a Federal Judge TWICE, and they never bring up the fact of his public lies when he is on news shows and panels discussion politics. He gets a pass like all Liberals before him, now if he was a Republican then of course he would be driven out of office like Nixon was for trying to protect his staff and derided the rest of his life.
Dareck, even if the comment was directed to Bristol, Dave is still calling her a slut. He implies that she would be willing to have sex with ARod merely because she had a child out of wedlock. I wonder if Dave ever made those comments about his wife. I mean she had a child out of wedlock as well. Did Dave ever take her to a Yankees game and suggest that she had sex with ARod? I mean apparently she is just as slutty as Bristol.
Also, how much money does Bristol make? Just because her mother makes a decent salary – although not a remarkable salary – doesn’t mean that the grandmother will be supporting the child. Don’t forget the Palin’s due have a special needs child that might require quite a bit of their resources for future care.
“Governor Palin announced over the weekend that her 17-year-old unmarried daughter is five months pregnant. And you thought John Edwards was in trouble before! Now he has really done it.” ~ Jay Leno on “The Tonight Show” – 9/2/08
See that’s the way it’s done– it’s funny because there’s no question that he’s referencing the 17 year old AND it calls John Edwards a perv/rapist… Letterman should take notes.
Trojan Princess, good for you for embracing abstinence – please accept the opposite of ‘cruel hostility’ from me. I’m very impressed with your maturity and wisdom.
I guess since David Letterman was telling a joke and made a bad one, he needs to continue to be flogged and Sarah needs a reason to remain on TV other than her ethics violations in Alaska.
Rush’s comments are hateful and insite violence, since he isn’t joking, that must be free speech and he has a right to continue to insite violence and hate.
Plenty of jokes about being ugly were slung at Chelsea Clinton when she was 12 y/o. Not too many people cared. These joke began with a US Senator, I believe, or maybe Newt. You know, the Newt that believes in marriage as being one man and one woman +++. Like anyone wants to meet Newt in a dark alley.
We need to grow up and start fixing real problems instead of fixating on made up ones.
My child needs to ask a question: Where is the scoop on John Ensign or is he off limits because he’s so religious? People who sleep with their friends wife’s have a special place to go. At least Vitter, Edwards, and Spitzer used prostitutes in one form or another. You know he did’t confess until he got blackmailed by her husband. You can’t blame the husband. He not only lost his wife he lost his job when his good friend fired him and mistress.
Whew! I hear you Tarantula. Did you all see what people were saying at the protest in NYC yesterday? The rallying cry was basically, “If you slander one woman, you slander them all” and “If you don’t stick up for all women, you don’t stick up for any woman.”, as well as questioning where N.O.W was in all this. I wish that I could have been there. I’m with you Tarantula, I was around when Women’s Lib began. And when I retired from an IBM lab recently, the women were still making only 3/4 of what all the men made. :-p
Great discourse and points made here friends.
@Jenn
Maher is douchebag galore, I’m not surprised by the fact he supports Letterman on this one, nor am I shocked by the way he chose to express his support. I agree with the author of the article you linked to as far as cancelling HBO subscription is concerned – I cancelled mine years ago and I don’t regret it. What I don’t agree with the author of the article (and some commenters here) on is that this situation is being turned into some sort of “The Left vs. The Right” issue. Does one really have to be a Conservative or a Republican to see that what Letterman said was wrong, offensive and disrespectful? Do one’s political leanings really affect their opinion on this matter? I do agree with the left on many issues (there’s also a handful of issues I vehemently disagree with them on, so I wouldn’t describe myself as 100% liberal or LEFTIST or however it’s labeled these days, but I’m definitely not a conservative or a Republican) and I am outraged by Letterman’s “joke” as a woman and as a mother. What do I care about Gov. Palin’s political party affiliation? What does it have to do with anything? No one deserves to be publicly humiliated and disrespected like that. I’m sure there are other people on the left who feel that way. I might disagree with some of Gov. Palin’s political views, but I have a lot of sympathy and respect for her AND her daughter Bristol. As an unmarried young mother (although I was 2 years older than Bristol when I found myself in a similar situation) I identify with Bristol Palin and take all attacks on her very personally. Of course, there are some people out there who think that Sarah Palin deserves Letterman’s comments because she is a Republican, but there are intolerant, hateful, ignorant and foolish folks on both sides of political spectrum. For every Olbermann, Letterman and Maher out there there is Limbaugh, Coulter and such. To suggest that ALL people on the left think that Sarah Palin deserves such treatment is downright offensive. People on the left are not a monolite and we all see things differently.
aaw : “Teenagers rebel all the time. You can tell them to not do something and they will do it to spite you.”
Excellent point! Anyone who spent at least 2 minutes of their life with children (of any age) would know that once something is expilicitly forbidden it becomes a lot more tempting. I’m not saying that all teenage parents became parents solely because they were acting out of spite or were trying to defy their parents, my point is that as a parent you can only do so much – you set a certain set of rules that seem reasonable to you and then you do your best to make sure those rules are followed. But you can’t control everything! Therefore I think that blaming Sarah Palin for Bristol’s pregnancy is unfair, to say the least. And I also wish that people would stop referring to Bristol’s child as a mistake. Sure, she may not have used the best judgement and may be the time wasn’t right, but I think (and hope) that when she looks at her child she doesn’t think “my mistake”. As I said before, I think that a child is a blessing and I also believe that God has a plan for us and if a child is conceived then it’s what God wants – for some reason, God wants this child to be brought into this world, that is His plan and His will. Single motherhood has been hard on me and, unlike Bristol, I didn’t have my family there to support me (being an unmarried mother is unacceptable in my culture and my family and my so-called friends shunned me) but overall I have no regrets. I’m happy and grateful that things happened the way they did. Sure, it hasn’t been easy, but I love my child and can’t imagine my life without her and I would like to think that Bristol and the Palins feel the same way about Bristol’s baby.
TP, you are asking why some people hate abstinence advocats. I don’t know. Why is there so much resentment towards single parents in our society? I think it stems from general intolerance towards those who think differently, do things differently or live their lives differently. I’ve been noticing this tendency in our society to deem everyone who disagrees with you “wrong” and “stupid”. May be it’s because some people tend to think that their opinion and their way of life are the only right opinion and the only right way of life and those who live their lives differently deserve scorn and contempt, I don’t know. Anyway, kudos to you for sticking to what you believe in.
Simon – “It’s a good thing you’ll never have children.” Uh, says who?
A couple of years ago, Craig Ferguson did a monologue in which he explained why he was not going to do jokes about Britney Spears (this was when it came out that she was having serious psychological problems). In it, he mentioned that humor was meant to poke fun at the powerful, and not to kick people when they are down (I am paraphrasing).
I think that a lot of comedians need to think about what they are saying, and what effect it will or can have. Every time someone harps on Bristol Palin’s out-of-wedlock child, they reinforce the idea that she is nothing more than an irresponsible girl who was dumb enough to get pregnant (because that is the message behind every joke). Imagine when she tries to get a job: every human resource manager will look at her and think about her “mistake”. No matter how open-minded, their first impression will most likely be negative, because that is the general tone of the media attention she has received.
Can you imagine being judged by the biggest mistake you ever made? Most of us have done stupid things that we would not want people to know about, but are lucky enough not to be famous. Ever get drunk? Now imagine if every time someone talked about you to other people, they insinuated that you have a drinking problem. Would you appreciate it? What if they said they were just kidding? Humor is funny when it makes fun of common problems or bizarre situations. Making fun of other people usually isn’t truly funny, it just allows us to feel a sense of superiority. True humor is hard, being mean is easy. Sadly, most comedians take the easy route.
Thanks for understanding!
I agree with many of the commenters here, but Nati, I agree with Every. Word. You. Said.
And, thank you for sharing.
I love this post! Thank you Simon!
Nati, that probably was one of the best posts I’ve ever seen. Anywhere.
Same for TrojanPrincess (whose nickname here is now more ironic than I realized, and I say that with all respect), Scott F (as usual), Pinandpuller, and evil_tarantula, whose name is redundant (all spiders are in league with the devil). Y’all are frigging brilliant, honestly.
AHHHH! A compliment from Beige! Now my life is complete! And, yeah, my nickname does sound pretty ironic now. It’s actually because I graduated from USC (the Trojans) and have insane amounts of school pride.
Yeah, everyone did seem to put a lot of genius into their posts on this thread.
It’s all much ado about nothing and the public falls for it hook, line, & sinker. Who cares what Letterman said? I don’t. Personally, I found it to be more of a jab at A Rod. And I didn’t care about the Clinton comment during the election, either – as she WAS pimping out her daughter, figuratively speaking.
At the end of the day, both Palin and Letterman got to spend 2 weeks+ in the news. They’re all happy.
But what do I know? I’m just a slut with a bastard son. lol
http://videos.nymag.com/video/At-the-Fire-David-Letterman-Ral
Thank you, Beige and LiVo. This time I actually thought (a lot) before I posted
And still, totally missppeled “monolith”. I kinda feel out of place right now. I’ll go post something stupid 
OMG, You’re Marvin the Martian, TP! Heh.