If you haven’t heard about all the recent town hall mayhem you must be living under a rock. Those opposing Obamacare are coming out in droves to voice their opinions and disgust with the proposed national health care system. Members of Congress, particularly Democrats, hosting town halls in their districts over August recess haven’t been thrilled with the large boisterous crowds showing up at their events.
In attempts to prevent an “angry mob” of health care protesters, Texas Democrat Gene Green is letting Texans know that his town hall meetings are only open to constituents, not generally concerned Americans.
Town hall meetings are one of my favorite ways to communicate with constituents…Unfortunately, due to a coordinated effort to disrupt our town hall meetings, we will be restricting further attendance to residents of the 29th Congressional District and verifying residency by requiring photo identification.
Got that Texas-29 residents? You better show up with a photo ID. And then wait for whoever is checking them to verify that your street address is actually in the district. Don’t have a photo ID? Too bad, no free speech for you.
Lucky for us (and ACORN) back in September 2005 and 2006 Representative Green voted NO on requiring photo IDs for voting in federal elections.
That’s right, you need a photo ID to voice your opinion to your congressman, but if you want to vote there’s really no need to use identification (according to Green). Obviously regulation of a town hall meeting is far more valuable than regulating the voting process.
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The people I see complaining about the healthcare bill are those who are most involved in the healthcare system-doctors, people with disabilities and their family members and retired people. They know that as bad as the system can be now, it will get a whole lot worse with this bill. As an employee in the medical field, it’ bad. We get Medicaid payments 7 months behind and for only 80% of what it costs. We have to fight insurance companies and Medicaid/Medicare to get medicines and treatments for our patients. And the fraud will get out of control. Instead of the Pentagon getting $900 toilet seats, some provider will charge $1,000 for an enema bag. I shudder when I think of the future of healthcare.
OK, here is what I don’t get, what exactly is wrong with universal healthcare that is free at the point of delivery? The system in the US seems to be riddled with corruption precisely because it involves profit making organisations at every level.
I live in the UK, and sure sometimes the NHS screws up, and sometimes we get mad at it, but most people, when they are asked about their own experiences (not a second hand experience) are positive. The NHS kept my dad alive for 10 years after prostate cancer diagnosis, and this was in the days before the current treatments. Tales like the guy who stuck his crown on with superglue? It’s like this, you sign up with a dentist, you go for regular check ups, you get your dental care OR you don’t bother to sign up, you don’t look after your teeth with regulat check ups, and what do you know, when you need one, you weren’t on a list so you have to go to the emergency dental clinic (or – alternatively, go private). And as for the elderly not getting care, try looking at the reality, the majority of NHS spending goes on care of elderly patients.
I’ll just duck and cover now.
Nothing is free. I hear the UK’s deficit spending is at 11.6% of GDP (2nd to the US which leads the G20 nations at 13.5% and that’s without a NHS). I don’t have a problem with universal health care, I have a problem with politicians saying it will be deficit neutral and that they can find cuts elsewhere to pay for it (or that they’re going to fine me if I can’t prove I have signed up for a plan, how does that help me?). That’s like spitting in my face and telling me it’s raining.
You want me to back this plan? 1. All politicians (county to federal) should be forced to enter into it themselves once they take their oath of office no matter what their previous health plan is effective when the bill becomes law, except the President. 2. Demonstrate these cuts to me first. Show me the oodles of money that can be found to pay for this.
Maybe the ID policy will at least cut down on the people who show up with no real information about the issues but really like to drive across state lines to shout slogans and hold signs that say things like “ObamaKKKare”.
I’m technically all for free access to the townhalls, but on the other hand perhaps an evening without the peanut gallery could actually lead to a real discussion or at least an accurate dissemination of information.
I agree that the biggest problem that I have with system is that the loudest backers of this plan are people that will not use it (politicians, and the wealthy elitists who can afford even the most expensive private health care plans.) Correct me if I’m wrong, but if a person can afford a private plan in countries with universal healthcare, they pretty much ALWAYS get it. (a lot of them prefer to fly over here too)
I read an interesting article today about the quality of health care coverage the politician receive, paid for by the taxpayers of this county. $10 co-pay for brand name prescriptions, $5 for generic. VIP treament at DC hospitals and after working 5 years, they are eligable for coverage after they “retire”.
Would I like that kind of coverage? Sure would. Would I like to pay more of my hard earned money to make sure everyone has that kind of coverage? Nope. Too many people don’t pay their fair share, including many politicians. (As seen by the sheer number of people on Obama’s list of wanna be’s who couldn’t be because of tax issues.)
I don’t know how England does it Emma, but I can imagine our nationalized healthcare will be riddled with crooks and corruption, just like the rest of our government. I have little trust in our government doing anything right with anything, let alone healthcare (See my example on Pentagon overspending) I don’t see it as profit minded organizations as much as the greedy shits we have in government. And I mean all parties, not just one or the other. Also, the minute Congress, the President and all the wealthy elites sign up for the programs and actually USE it, then I will sign up and I can’t imagine any of them giving up their healthcare perks.
What I find is so worrisome about Obamacare is the hurry with which this is being forced on the country. By their own admission congress has not even read the bill! How can they expect the people of this country to buy into something so huge, so costly if they have not taken the time to read it themselves. That they are astonished by the reception they are receiving at the town hall meetings is mind boggling. Clearly out of touch.
I am from Canada, I have experienced the health care system there. My three children were all born there. I was able to see the doctor I wanted when I wanted and never was refused care.
That it is free is a myth. We paid into our provinces Health Care every month. Having said all that we were all fortunate to be healthy. The health system there works for maintaining health (worked then – we have been a way for some time now). People were (are) waiting months for simple knee and cataract surgeries – surgeries some board has deemed as elective. Some provinces do have a few private clinics but this two tier health care is derided as ‘unfair’. Why should someone who can afford to have their knee replaced in a private clinic be allowed to do so when someone else can’t? The socialist mindset at work.
“OK, here is what I don’t get, what exactly is wrong with universal healthcare that is free at the point of delivery? The system in the US seems to be riddled with corruption precisely because it involves profit making organisations at every level.”
So, the system is corrupt, so we must disband it? That’s like cutting off a foot to cure an ingrown toenail. It accomplishes the task you set out to do, but does it really help?
This argument reminds me a lot of gun control. People constantly complain that we need more gun laws, but they don’t seem to notice the problem lies in the fact we rarely ENFORCE the ones we ALREADY HAVE. See, capitalism is only as ‘evil’ as we let it be. We already have laws limiting health care corruption, if they’re not being enforced, guess who’s fault that is? GOVERNMENT! The same government now swooping in to the ‘rescue’ when they couldn’t even take care of the system to begin with.
I also love how you use ‘profit’ like a dirty word. Without the prospect of profit, how many people do you think are going to go into the medical field? Sure, some still will, but the best and brightest? Why? They could make much more working for a biotech company or as a research chemist, ect. People in this country are always bitching constantly about the lack of teachers, firefighters, and police. Know why they have trouble filling those positions? Because it involves a lot of headaches, a bunch of training, AND IT DOESN’T PAY CRAP.
So yeah, that sounds like a fantastic idea for the medical field too. Lets just get rid of all that evil profit.
And why would the government be so non-corrupt? They have even less incentive to be honest than private corporations. You’re talking about the people that are the highest authority in the land, one that we cannot fight against. There is no ‘bargaining chip’ with the government, no way to take your business elsewhere.
And besides, the government and big pharm. are already in bed together. Who do you think sponsors drug research and legalizes questionable drugs? The government of course(and don’t think no money/favors change hands here). People seem to have the Hollywood-esque idea that the faceless, comservative msen in suits are ruining the country, while the brave government wants to take them down. It’s a joke. They’re equally corrupt! Government, business, liberal and conservative, it doesn’t matter.
Emma, the real issue is force. You may argue that you have a right to health care. What you do *NOT* have a right to do is force someone else to provide it for you. (i.e. your fellow taxpayers)
That is the heart-and-soul of the matter.
I wanted to share that I was so relieved that they won’t be basing coverage on age(which would be illegal) but rather “life-years”, which as you know is completely different. I am glad they won’t be unplugging grandma(the question is whether grandma would ever be plugged-in in the first place), or having unelected boards decide who get what treatments(although oddly that is in the bill, but one of our representatives would never lie about something that important, must be a typo). I feel a warmth just knowing Obamessiah is lookin out for me and knows whats best for me(may be heartburn).
As we’re fond of saying around my house: If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait until it’s “free.”
there’s a talk show host on XM radio, randy rhodes (sp?) that in a promo for her show states that people who turn up at town hall meetings should be from the district where the meeting is being held. this means one of two things, this talk show host is A) parroting talking points from the obama sycophants 2) democrats are taking ideas from z-list talk show hosts with zero listeners on a money losing network. this is an unflattering-for-all-involved possibility.
i also don’t remember this dust-up when people were showing up at town hall meetings to protest the iraq war in 2007.
We aren’t being given any clear, concise answers. And the answers we do get are so vague and generalized its no wonder so many people are admantly against the government overhauling and overtaking the health care system. If the politicians want us to accept this so badly they need to make the rubber meet the road themselves. Drop their health care, and take on what they want US to take on. If they keep insisting they are “one of us”….then prove it and take that step they want to make us take.
So far everything Obamagic promised has been a disappointment. Polls are showing he is losing popularity points. And he has the nerve to get in front of a crowd of people and tell us to not be scared? The way the government has been throwing money around is astounding. If they can’t control the bailout money being used for bonuses to top executives then how are they going to control the corruption this sort of health care system is going to spawn?
I’m going to deal with this as an issue in itself and not get into the larger healthcare debate, which is incredibly complex and deserves its own discussion. I’m not one for stifling free speech, which is exactly why I’m FOR this measure at this point. The problem of shouting down representatives trying to get their point across is getting more and more out of control. First it was a couple over passionate people getting a little too worked up, then it was a room full of whackos reporting e mails and propaganda as if it were true, then it was a room full of whackos and BUSSED IN whackos asking rhetorical questions then shouting down and silencing any answer, then came the fights, then the guy who brought a loaded firearm (he had every right to do so, but I have every right to bring a knife to a family picnic, DOESN’T MEAN I SHOULD), and the people behind it (being the actual people or the corporations doing the bussing) are only escalating the craziness. How long before the protests actually end in violence? How much more are politicians doing these townhalls (regardless of political affiliation or position)supposed to put up with before they try and bring some decorum back to it? I hear a lot about the rights of those shouting, yelling, and disrupting, but what about the rights of the people at the townhalls who ACTUALLY WANT TO HEAR FROM SOMEONE BESIDES THE RANDOM CITIZEN SHOUTING ACCUSATIONS? Do they just have to sit by and let everyone yell, disrupt, and end these meetings without anything actually getting done? Do the shouters have all the rights and the quiet have none? I’m normally not for such selective admittance in stuff like this (George W Bush’s public appearances ALL OF THEM were appallingly staged), but in the situation, where one side is definitively silencing the other side AND the politician who is try to answer questions (even those asked by the shouters), what else do you expect them to do?
Dan – I’ve tried not to bring this up very often, because even to my own eyes the argument reads like something my three year old would bring up (“well he hit me first!”), but seriously… this has been a long time coming.
I didn’t necessarily know which issue was going to cause it, but speaking from a purely psychological/sociological standpoint this was inevitable. Is it particularly productive? Nope. But the Democrats have no one to blame but themselves. This recent rash of blowback from conservatives has been laughed off as fear or racism for the most part, and while that may play a small part in some quarters, the true reason is even simpler. This is the sound of half the country finally snapping.
Ever seen a kid sitting with their younger sibling, trying to remain calm while the younger one does everything in his power to provoke him? He’s jabbing him with his finger, yelling in his face, giving him a wet willy, ect. Inevitably the older kid eventually snaps and absolutely loses it – this is exactly what we’re seeing, just on a national level. Ironically, the left’s reaction is the same as the little kid’s too, which is to blame the person they’ve been poking for the last hour straight for ‘overreacting’.
For literally my entire life (I was born just as Reagan was elected to his first term) the left has been that screaming, whiny, annoying little kid just jabbing away and screaming, even when they’re in power. Don’t even try to talk to me about the right shouting people down. Where was this rush for a constructive dialogue during the wars? When code pink protesters were disrupting the Republican Convention on live TV? When the anti-war groups were protesting at my buddies frakking FUNERALS! They couldn’t be bothered to defend the sanctity of men who gave their lives for this country, but shouting down some blowhard Senator is suddenly beyond the pale… what kind of screwed up world do we live in?
But we’re conservatives. We’re supposed to be the adults. So we sat there and took it for as long as we could with as much dignity as was possible given the circumstances. People have just finally reached the boiling point, and they’re willing to respond in the exact same way that the other side has been using for decades. I find the left’s reaction to be the most ironic and frankly Deceiver worthy (are you reading this Simon?) thing I’ve seen in my entire life. It’s a classic case of transference as they try to project all their own faults onto the other side.
1. “Republicans are silencing debate by screaming slogans and interrupting rational discussion” – Just like leftist anti-war protesters and environmentalists have been doing since the 60’s.
2. “Republicans are trying to intimidate the opposition with hired thugs!” – You mean the same way that Democrats have been using union thugs to enforce their will for decades? Scandalous!
3. “Rich Corporate interests are trying to influence health care reform!” Two words: George Soros.
4. “These aren’t really concerned citizens, they’re being bussed in!” Yeah, anti-war groups never do that. It’s not the same couple thousand people at most of these things that just spend their time traveling from protest to protest… on buses. Nope. Not listening. LA LA LA LA LA.
5. “We need people to shut up so we can work this thing out!” – What happened to dissent is patriotic?
I could go on, but feel that’s sufficient to get my point across. Deceivers of the Year, the lot of ‘em. I rest my case.
It isn’t healthcare “reform” per se that has activated an infuriated American (formerly) silent majority. People have just had enough of this administration and its Marxist machinations. The idiots keep trying to ‘explain’ to us how great this would be.. not getting that:
A) right off the bat, no one wants a government run generalized healthcare system, period, and that WHAT IS IN THE LEGISLATION IS IRRELEVENAT since the mere fact of its existence is antithetical to a free (what’s left of it) American society.
B) trying to convince America that socialized healthcare is going to be just great is akin to the following:
ROBBER: Quit pointing that gun at me.
HOMEOWNER: Why the hell should I? You think I’m just going to let you take my stuff?
ROBBER: What a fool you are! I already TOLD you that when I fence everything, I’ll split the money with you. Your bank account is gonna be phat!
HOMEOWNER: What-? Are you crazy? Do you even know what you’re saying?
ROBBER: You’re really stupid, you know that? You just wanna be a hater. HATER!
Personally, I’m utterly delighted with the Democrats’ behavior. I officially request they carry on.
Why are you arguing wih that robber? Shoot him.
okay, forget the healthcare issue. Hello? Anyone notice that he voted down the use of ID for people to VOTE but you have to have one to go to a town hall meeting? Okay, so ex-cons and illegals and vote, but a citizen cannot speak his mind?
And on the other side, I read the bill where is says if you are a business owner who has a payroll of at least $250000 you MUST get the government plan or else be fined heavily. Also, you make $30000, you pay a 7% premium for your health insurance. Do not force me or my employer like this. And who says we are not leaning towards socialism.
yes AAW that is the issue of this post. I do find it hypocritical that he is fine with voters not needing ID (he is a dem after all) yet attendees to his townhall meetings will have to show proff of residency. How many fake ID’s do you think will be issued to the astroturfers he is going to bus in?
Hallelujah. I came here to throw a fit, and Scott F., bigmama, Jenn, TheIrish and Rocko have already done it, and done it so much better than I ever could have.
Dan: In all likelihood, the “shouters” are shouting because they’ve been the silent for entirely too long. It’s pathetic, and laughable, that all of a sudden Democrats are all “Oh, let’s all get along…I mean, YOU get along with ME.” For longer than I care to remember, Dems have been bitching and yowling about dissent being stifled, about Bush being Hitler reincarnated, about anything and everything they didn’t like. Well, like it or not, it may just be OUR TURN to shout for awhile.
We’ve got our douchebag president (actually, he’s not MY president and never will be), snarking that our outrage is ginned up by PACs and corporations, and in the next breath he’s demanding that his disciples (SEIU, HCAN, etc.) mobilize to crowd these town hall meetings. And now an equally douchey Representative, who’s decided that ID requirements weren’t a good idea when he and his dear and fluffy lord were being shoehorned into power, but now that the opposition’s taking a stand, there need to be some roadblocks.
Get set for a hell of a lot more yelling, in other words.
THEY ALREADY HAVE, DUDE. And it wasn’t conservatives doing the beating, either.
http://www.examiner.com/x-7812-DC-SCOTUS-Examiner~y2009m8d9-Hate-Crime-Obama-backers-beat-black-critic-of-healthcare-reform-use-racial-slurs
What would happen if all the protesters of the health reform bill flagged themselves, on mass, to flag@whitehouse.gov?
But doesn’t everyone do this. The bush adminstration tried to limit those who would protest and yell in the middle of their town hall meetings. I believe there was a few things of loyalty oaths needing to be signed. Buisness with deep enough pockets often fill seats in public meetings to limit the number of those who are opposed to them can get them. None of it is right, but it’s done around the block both sides of the party and everywhere imbetween.
Free speech means you can generally say what you want. Doesn’t mean the other guy has to give you a place to say it. Again not right but way of the world. Still all government officials should be forced to answer the questions of those are a calm, wait their turn, and ask a question. The guys with signs on who just yell half an hour should still get thrown out on both sides because it cheapens the discussion of whats going on.
Jenn, I don’t know–but I do know that a lot of people are flagging the entire HR 3200 (I think that’s its designation) and sending THAT to flag@whitehouse.gov. Because it’s FISHY, y’see.
Beige, you hit on a good point. Obama basically came out and said if people who oppose it shout, then you get in their face and shout louder. Reminds me of his campaign speech where he said” Get in their faces, in your neighbors faces”. Ah, democrats, the make love not war part of this country. People are shouting because when they try to talk they are being ushered out of the town hall meetings. Yesterday I had friends here in Ohio attend one and were asked to leave their seats because they refused a Support Reform sticker. And now people want to know why we are mad?
My father and uncle were at the John Dingell town hall meeting which is getting so much YouTube attention. My two cousins were in the overflow outside.
I totally agree with Scott’s fed up and not taking it anymore theory. Politicians (both asses and elephants) are responsible for what’s going on now. I don’t blame the public at all.
It makes us all feel warm and tingly in our tummies to pretend that the government is directly responsible to us. Hey, we’re a democracy, right? In truth, we’re a republic which has grown far too populous and complex to ever truly listen to a single citizen again.
But politicians like to keep us thinking that they bend to our will. Thus, the town hall debacle.
We elect people to office, not because they’re honest, hardworking, and intelligent but because they’re a person who craves attention or power. We allowed them to reward themselves with retirement packages and paid holidays, which further attracts the dregs among the narcissists. Then we broke the lines of communication.
We give politicans a spotlight, at every ribbon cutting, on dedicated channels, op-eds, and on the floor before they cast a vote. We give them every opportunity to speak. If you don’t know where your senator stands on an issue, you must live in a hyperbaric chamber.
They talk a lot, but when do they listen?
We gave up our voice.
Somehow it became okay to think “we tell them we approve of their job by reelecting them”. This means we only get to speak on one November day, every few years.
We let them move to Washington. It’s not as if they need to hail a stage coach home anymore, but yet we allow them to set up DC residences within a gaint bubble of politicassholitude.
We stopped noticing when they only show up for photo-ops. They kiss babies at state fairs, but they’re nowhere in sight when the factory which supports an entire town lets out it’s final shift before closing the doors for good.
We said it was okay to reply via form letters. And we shrug off the form letter in response to our complaint about the first form letter.
We let them reduce office hours and use low level staff to take messages. Hell, most of us don’t bother calling or writing anymore.
But most of all, we allowed them to turn town hall meetings into yet another opportunity for US to listen to THEM. Town halls have become another giant self congratulatory grandstand for the political class.
It’s not okay to sneak supporters in a side door.
It’s not okay to stack the deck with softball questions.
It’s not okay to print Yeah For Me! posters and hand them out to your fan club.
It’s not okay to book tiny halls which won’t hold the number of attendees.
It’s not okay to only announce your public meeting to the UAW, SEIU, NEA, NRA, the Christian Coalition, or whatever group of flunkies you think loves you the loudest.
And it’s not okay to tell my uncle or anyone else standing there with a section of the bill in his hand that they “must’a read it wrong”!
What you didn’t see or read was that Dinglell had no answer for half the questions. Dingell said he “didn’t need to read the bill” BECAUSE HE SUPPOSEDLY WROTE MOST OF IT. Every time a questioner trapped him with specific details, instead of saying “gee, I’ll have to check that out”, his response was “we’ll have to add an ammendment about that.” He wasn’t taking notes, he wasn’t considering the issue, he was waiting for the question to end so that he could continue his platitude barrage.
That 28,000 year old man who entered office before Annette Funicello grew Mouse ears, stood at his podium and pretended not to notice the dissent in the room. That dissent spread out into the hall, through the front doors, filled the parking lot and the sidewalk of the avenue outside.
So if you were wondering why the audience was yelling at Dingell, why the father wheeled his son up to the front of the room and went totally berserk, it was because Dingell apparently forgot to put in his hearing aids that morning.
Dingell left that meeting an unchanged man. Nothing that happened at that meeting was going to sway him from his predetermined vote.
And that isn’t even representational democracy.
That’s tyranny.
even IF 99% of the population approved of a bill, who could trust that an additional 1,000 page ‘amendment’ wouldn’t be dropped on it a few hours before the vote?
dems, keep shooting yourselves in the foot.
EWW. I just got a mass e-mail from David Axelrod, addressed to “Friend” and purporting to disabuse me of “misconceptions” about the health-care debate.
I replied, “I am not your friend, and do not contact me again”.
Just to say, thanks for setting out your opposition for me to the proposed healthcare reforms (the whole town hall meeting thing is a mystery to me) I may not agree with them all, but at least I have a better understanding now. They were a lot less shouty than a lot of the things I’ve seen on other discussion boards.
Got to love Deceiver…
I’m not touching you, Scott! I’m not touching you! I’m not touching you! Obamaaahhhhh, he made a face at me!
Whee, I’ma stay out of this democrat v. republican thing. I’m a libertarian. But it always amuses me when people assume I’m one or the other. Actually, it’s funny as hell.
What I keep telling people who think “We have to do something about healthcare” is the Freedom requires we be Self Reliant and take Personal Responsibility for out lives and family. We give up our freedom when abdicat our responsibility and become reliant on the government.
In regards to what other country’s do or not do…not interested. This isn’t any other counrty but the United States and it is built on a simple foundation of limited government in our lives. Other countrys give housing and jobs to their citizens, we do not.
I think what horrifies me the most is the idea that decisions will be based on what someone decides I am worth to society(government). It is understandable that businesses make decisions based on profit, that’s there role, but my government is supposed to look out ME, no matter what. It would be like parents deciding to let a disabled child starve because they are unable to contribute to the family farm.
Look at it this way, we already have governments(local and state so far as i know) using eminent domain to seize property and turn it over to corporations under the logic that them paying more in taxes is for the public good. If they will take your home to make more money in taxes is it really that hard to believe that they will decide whether to spend tax dollars on your health care based on what they estimate you will pay in taxes?
And when Liberals are asking the public to report their neighbors who express opinions counter to Obama’s, tell me again who are the Nazi’s.
The main difference between George W Bush’s issues during appearance and what is going on townhalls right now: It was dealt with and things continued.
Yes, George W Bush (and others like Rice, Ashcroft, etc.) had his share of shouting loons (regardless of their opinion, when you stand up and disrupt in the most loud, obnoxious way possible, you’re a shouting loon), but when it happened to Bush, the loon was escorted out and the appearance (speech, townhall, whatever) continued on as planned, decorum retained. The problem with the townhalls is the shouting loon stands up, shouts, refuses to stop yelling and keeps yelling, losing decorum and control of the proceedings at the same time. The point of a townhall is to address concerns from people attending. The guy at Arlen Spector’s townhall had the right idea, he wanted to be heard. Fair enough, he was heard. What he said really didn’t add to the discussion (“God will judge you” really isn’t the point of the townhalls, but whatever), but he said his truth and then he stopped yelling. But the others before him, those that just jumped up and started shouting and wouldn’t stop, they’re disrupting the process more than they’re helping it. Stand up and tell your side, great. But standing up, shouting continuously and stopping OTHER PEOPLE, who have the same rights as you, from asking their questions and hearing a coherent response. Its not that they don’t have the right to their say, but they DO NOT have the right to keep others from having theirs. Protest. Great. Discourse. Great. Shouting down and silencing others. Not right at all.
And to the commenter who said Code Pink and like groups protested your friend’s funeral, they should not have done that. The point of protest is to show discourse, to show disapproval, but not to hurt innocent people in the process or infringe on anyone else’s rights. And when it comes down to it, no matter what side you’re on, there’s a thing called “respect”. You don’t have to like the war, but don’t delight in the death of soldiers. You don’t have to like the healthcare bill(s), but don’t keep others from hearing both sides. In the end, we need to debate, discuss, but still remember that the person on the other side has a right to hear all sides, and that the person you’re debating is a real person. “Us vs. them” dehumanizes us all.
Don’t tase me, bro.
Beige, that was an illegal email that went out. Major Garrett tried to get an answer out of Gibbs yesterday but he once again avoided the question and disregarded Major. The spokesperson for the White House once again doubletalks and avoids another question.
@AAW: Well, I’m not surprised. It’s hard to expect much in the way of clarity from a horse’s ass in a suit. And Axelrod’s chummy little message went a long way toward confirming the theory that there is, in fact, a WH enemies list.
Beige, just for you
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/14/white-house-expected-explain-creation-health-care-e-mail-list/
Yeah, because having our names and e-mail addys HANDED OVER gets you off the hook for creating the list. Well played, horse’s ass. I hate Robert Gibbs.
Achtung! Where are your papers?!
Pearce, you kill me!!!ROTFLMAO!!
Long list of ‘milkcarton’ politicians over at HotAir. These representatives are not holding town halls this month…
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/16/who-are-your-milk-carton-politicians/