Last night, during President Obama’s historic speech on health care — as opposed to his dozens of other historic speeches on health care — America witnessed the most stunning, disgraceful attack on an American president ever. Move over, John Wilkes Booth. Make room, John Hinckley. There’s a new name in evil: Joe Wilson.
The enemy of the state who bellowed “You lie!” was Republican Congressman Joe Wilson, and never in the history of the Republic has anyone shown such disrespect for the President of the United States. This menace must be stopped! Can no one rid me of this meddlesome pest? Who can imagine a more nauseating outrage than–
Oh. Well, that’s different. That was the bad president. This is the good president. The same standard doesn’t apply because… well, it just doesn’t.
Wilson has now apologized, and Obama has accepted. Meanwhile, millions of Americans are still waiting on their apology for being called “an angry mob,” “un-American,” “terrorists,” “evil-mongers,” “racist, teabagging rednecks,” and whatever else. Have they been called “dirty stinky poopheads” yet? At this point, why not? Obviously, anybody who disagrees with anything Obama says must be stopped at all costs, so why hold back?
Insult and disdain the people you’re supposed to be governing long enough, and eventually one of them might insult and disdain you right back. Try not to act so shocked.
(Hat tip to Ed Morrissey)
Update: Almost forgot. Just minutes before Joe Wilson shocked the nation by saying what at least 50% of them were thinking, Honest Barack said this (emphasis mine):
Some of people’s concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren’t so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple.
Guess it doesn’t count if you don’t name any names.
Update: As Gabriel Malor points out, Obama also said this:
But what we have also seen in these last months is the same partisan spectacle that only hardens the disdain many Americans have toward their own government. Instead of honest debate, we have seen scare tactics.
And then he said this in the very same speech:
Everyone in this room knows what will happen if we do nothing. Our deficit will grow. More families will go bankrupt. More businesses will close. More Americans will lose their coverage when they are sick and need it most. And more will die as a result.
“Don’t let these scare tactics stop you, or we’re all gonna die!” Sometimes Past Obama and Present Obama are in the same room at almost the same time.
Related posts:
- Present Obama Suffers Another Outlandish Attack from Past Obama During the neverending 2008 presidential campaign, Senator Barack Hussein Obama...
- President Obama Condemns AIG Bonuses Signed into Law by President Obama As the Oversneer told you earlier, the President of the...
- The President of the United States Shouldn’t Play Golf (Unless He’s Obama) If you’ve lived on Earth for the last 8 years,...
- President Obama Gets Award from the Press, Who Are Not Allowed to Cover It From Top of the Ticket at the LA Times: Barack...
- Once Again, Past Obama Attacks Present Obama Hey, remember about six months ago, when President Obama told...
From Cash for Clunkers to the Mortgage Bailout, not a single Obama program has thus far excluded illegal aliens, why would anyone believe Obama’s Health Plan would be any different?
Its pretty obvious that the weak verbage preventing access for illegals in the current document would not stand up to a constitutional challenge Obama will invariably bring, yet he has fought more specific, durable language preventing such access.
Also, Harry Reid called Bush a liar repeatedly:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Reid_called_Bush_liar_stood_by_comment.html
Ironically, if they keep this up, the people may actually revolt against the government and stage a violent revolution to set up a People’s Republic. This was probably Voldemor….er, the President’s insidious plan all along.
You know I was thinking …shocker. But why don’t we pick our least favorite location in this country, or maybe if mexico, and let all those who follow and are stupid enough to believe Obama go live there. Once they are there, can we shut the door behind them so they can’t come back?
We all must be carful. Barry might get pissed and send his Klingon Warrior Princess to kill all of us angry mobs, un-American, terrorists, evil-mongers, racist, teabagging rednecks.
[We're not going to be making comments about violence here, even as a joke. Thanks in advance. -- MGMT.]
Ahhh, did POTUS get his feelings hurt???
Joe should have thrown his shoe at the president. Democrats like that kind of thing afterall.
I’m pretty sure I bellowed the exact same thing during the several seconds I managed to force myself to watch Obama’s speech last night.
Sorry Simon, guess I’ll go sit in a corner for the rest of the afternoon…
I love how many people have referred to this as ‘unprecedented’ and the like. Frankly, lets just be happy we don’t have rolling brawls in the Senate like many countries.
Hell, I remember reading about a southern Senator before the Civil War beating an abolitionist Senator pretty severely with a cane right on the floor in front of everyone. But I’m sure that was fine with everyone, after all, he was a Democrat.
I can’t decide whether Democrats honestly don’t know their guys have done this, and worse, or if they know, but think we don’t. At best they’re incompetent amnesiacs; at worst, they’re cynical demagogues. Harry Reid in particular is a gray little sniveler, about as useful as a nun’s genitalia.
As for comments about violence, I’ve been seeing those on FB, but they’re being made by liberals against Wilson.
Okay!
I’m coming out of the corner to correct Scott because it wasn’t a Senator, it was a fricken South Carolina Representative and the coincidence of that kind of history repeating itself although on a slightly smaller scale with a little less blood is too just unbelievably delicious to shut up about…
But apparently I pushed the boundaries of good taste in my own reference.
I know, I know, Simon. Back to the corner I go.
But not before I kiss Scott!
**************SMOOTCH!***************
The negative and rather loud murmuring from the crowd in both Bush’s and Obama’s speech is quite alright and damn right acceptable. It is much better than the fisticuffs that occur in governing bodies in foreign countries (I’m looking at you South Korea). The fault with Rep. Wilson’s outburst was his timing and how he did it. If people from his own party are saying it wasn’t right, then guess what, it wasn’t right.
Democrats have been reminded.
But this was not the first time or even just the second time this has happened.
From http://mediamatters.org/research/200502040014
Feb. 4, 2005
“Media figures have falsely claimed that Democrats’ audible disapproval of President Bush’s misleading claim in his February 2 State of the Union address that Social Security will be “exhausted and bankrupt” in 2042 was “unprecedented.” In fact, Republicans routinely booed and hissed during President Clinton’s State of the Union addresses.”
Pelosi is going to have to spend another fortune on Botox after that. Her normally rock-solid face moved in ways it hasn’t in over 20 years! The wrinkles on her wrinkles on her wrinkles came back with a vengence.
She looked like Troy McClure when he smiled.
Because people in the same party can’t disagree about anything.
Beige – I think they think it’s different when DEMOCRATS do it. See, ’cause then it’s…uh…okay. Because when THEY exercise freedom of speech, it’s okay. That’s a very selective part of the Constitution, y’know?
WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE FOR NOT BELIEVING IN OBAMAGIC!!1!!111!!one
…I am now going to go out of my way to wear, as often as I possibly can, my Bigfoot/Nessie -08 – Change You Can BELIEVE In t-shirt. It’s fun to get dirty looks from idiots at Wal-mart.
Wait, Obama was on last night? Damn, I missed him walking on water.
For full disclosure I have to say that I believe in implementing universal health care and I cannot intellectually understand the argument for not giving health care to ANYONE who needs it–even illegal immigrants–because my heart gets in the way.
That said, the reaction to Joe Wilson is insane! Look at this Huffington Post article comparing him to terrorists!!!!! seriously!!! That is downright unbelievable… but there it is!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-shaw/reading-the-pictures-itow_b_281664.html
(the comment, which is essentially “I’m not saying it’s terrorism but pretty much it’s terrorism” is right below the picture of Pelosi)
insurance to illegal aliens?
They are here because they broke the law and now you want to give them health insurance. I agree that we need health care reform, but not the way that the dems are pushing.
I’d say it’s terrorism to make us look at Pelosi.
Bad Minnow! Bad Minnow!
Hurricane brings up my favorite point of the whole exchange, Nancy Pelosi’s Botox Frozen mask attempting to show facial emotion when she realized they were criticizing her messiah.
I’d like to personally thank Joe Wilson for having a set of testicles, and taking the fight directly to Obama. Good stuff.
Uhm, Babel?
You do understand that there’s a difference between HEALTH CARE and HEALTH INSURANCE, don’t you?
That’s okay. Bambi doesn’t either.
Insurance to illegal aliens? That makes me crazy. We are here as legal immigrants on an H1 visa. We jump through all the hoops and have paid thousands and thousands of dollars in all sorts of fees – lawyer, civil surgeon,visas etc and in my heart I know amnesty will be granted to the people here illegally and those of us doing this right (the legal way) will go to the back of the line. arrrghhhh
Call me old-fashioned, but it would have been even more awesome if he followed up his outburst by punching Harry Reid in the face, kissing Pelosi like no one has obviously ever kissed her before (you know, like if she was a woman_), and then finish by lighting up a cigar as he strolled out of the Senate with “You’re the Best” mysteriously playing as appropriate exit music.
Babeltek, I think it’s kind of you to want to take care of everyone. The thing is, while compassion may be unlimited, resources are not, and those of us with a legal right to be here get dibs on our resources. If people want the benefits of legal citizenship, they need to do what it takes to GET legal citizenship.
That’s not coldhearted meanness, BTW. It’s rule of law.
Hee, TheIrish!
Epilogue: “You’ve got spunk. We respect that.”
And they could air that on the Syfy channel.
First off I don’t care WHO is president, there’s NO excuse to yell or heckle them during their congressional addresses. I mean WTF, those chumps are supposed to be adults and have a degree of respectability and respect for the president. It’s one thing for everyday people to do it at public events… but congress-people during a televised address?! Not acceptable.
“More Americans will lose their coverage when they are sick and need it most. And more will die as a result”
If only that WERE a “scare tactic”, but it’s not. That DOES happen. My uncle had to leave his job due to pancreatic cancer and he lost his coverage. Insurance wouldn’t even cover anything to ease his suffering while he slowly died over 6 months. They refused to cover his cancer because he wasn’t going to survive. When he died, my aunt was left with massive medical bills. One of my former co-workers was denied for her breast cancer treatment through her insurance because she was stage 4…her insurance was going to leave her to die! Luckily her husband’s insurance picked up the tab and she’s still kickin’ 18 years later. Sorry, in my opinion, Americans should have it better than that.
I also have my own horror stories about crap insurance companies have pulled- and are still pulling- on me. Thankfully the GOP wants the insurance reform aspects (at least my congressman does- he was denied on a previous insurance company because he had a heart condition he was taking medication for!). The people who want this reform aren’t a bunch of broke slackers… we’re educated, tax-paying citizens who either have crap coverage or can’t afford a policy on our own. If I didn’t have my insurance, I’d have to pay $2000/month, $10000 deductible for a private policy because I had cancer within the past 4 years and I have chronic illnesses (which do NOT require active treatment I may add). Who the hell can afford THAT?!
Babeltalk… I do like a universal plan- even like McCain’s proposal that would give coverage to those who get ill unexpectedly… however, screw covering illegals. We need to take care of our own for a change. We’re the only country that doesn’t punish illegals but gives them all sorts of perks for doing it wrong. It’s not THAT hard to do it legally.
Just because something is possible doesn’t mean it can’t be used as a scare tactic. HTH.
Although what Rep. Wilson shouted was basically true, I have to say he went a bit too far. It would have been better if he had just let out a hearty laugh. That would have made his point in a less obnoxious way.
We should just offer health insurance to the whole world, right? As long as they can get here on their own of course. Now that makes a ton of sense. No wonder we are a bankrupt nation. If you want to treat illegals this is what your are saying.
As for the “You Lie” moment…don’t know how many of you watch British politics but those who don’t are going to be in for a big surprise. From the earliest of ages they learn in debate classes (at least in the private schools where they still teach thesse things as opposed to the new PC crap) how to argue while the other side hisses and boos. It is quite entertaining.
I appreciate the decorum that we have in our Congress and hope it remains but one little outburst in repsonse to the POTUS’s outright lies and deceit isn’t the end of the world.
Still waiting on Obama to apologize too…..
Ani – contrary to what people are saying it is practically tradition for members of congress to heckle the president.
I have tried to ease back on the tirades recently… but the self-centered attitude masquerading as compassion here is thick enough to cut with a knife. “I got screwed by an insurance company. Someone I know got screwed by an insurance company.” So the answer is to screw the rest of us who are happy with our perfectly adequate coverage? Thanks, we really appreciate your compassion – for everyone except the 70%+ who are just fine that is.
People have been screwed on their mortgages left and right recently, I suppose that means the government should step in and buy houses for everyone who can’t afford them too? Well, that would be the same kind of back-asswards logic being used to justify making the rest of us pay for YOUR health care. I also LOVE the idea that if I don’t WANT health insurance, I’ll be fined for not buying it. Because as we know, once the government is involved, it becomes their responsibility to tell us what to do ‘for our own good’.
If that idea isn’t antithetical to your very nature, then quite frankly, you’re what the founding fathers warned us about when they discussed ‘voting ourselves a share of the public treasury’.
I’m sorry you’ve been screwed, but the beauty of this nation is that it’s not my problem – it’s your problem. If my car won’t start, I don’t get to steal my neighbor’s because it’s not fair that my car had the problem that day and his didn’t. Life isn’t fair, sometimes bad things happen to good people, but I assure you that the horror stories won’t disappear with some magical governmental silver bullet – the only thing that will change is that people will stop being screwed by the insurance companies and start being screwed by the government.
Meet the new boss – same as the old boss.
It’s hard for me to hold it against Joe Wilson for yelling ‘you lie’ when Obama WAS up there lying. Wilson was just stating a fact.
If I was in the room while Obama was speaking about how none of the death panels/illegals coverage was true, while looking at the pages of the bill that contain those provisions, I’d be ready to blow up too.
Hey, I just wanted to commend Simon on this article and thank him, as well as Holly and Britney, for keeping a great site. I also really appreciate reading the comments left by Deceiver regulars. I rarely comment myself, but I’m a daily reader. Sometimes I feel like this is the only ‘place’ in the world where people make any sense at all. This is the only place I’ve found where people communicate about ongoing politics in an intelligent and respectful way, and the only place where its writers and commentators aren’t a blind flock of sheep following Obamagic (yet oddly aren’t right-wing nuts either).
My blood pressure couldn’t take it, so I didn’t watch…I have seen over and over again the part where Wilson shouted his little bit.
It was more of the same, other than that little bit of excitement. More guano that was liberally spread about.
Pun intended.
Scott… did I say I wanted everyone to pay for my healthcare? No. I said I wanted insurance companies to stop being allowed to screw people over like this and basically leave people to die. That doesn’t cost anything. Consider yourself lucky you were never denied treatment, or never had to cough up $200K to pay for chemotherapy because “you needed that last year, too”. .
Must be nice to have perfect health and not have to actually WORRY about going bankrupt because you got cancer. Eff you, Scott. Eff you. That was effing cold hearted and if I could throttle you through my screen I WOULD. I hope you NEVER EVER have to experience the stuff I’ve dealt with in my life because I had the AUDACITY to you know, get cancer and OMG have even MORE nerve to actually have it relapse 3 times. Think I asked for this? Fuck you.
Am I happy with my insurance company? No. But is it tolerable? Yes.
And Ani, I’m not in perfect health. In fact, my insurance flat out will not cover my condition, so I pay out of pocket. Just like my parents paid out of pocket for my medical care until I left home, and the university required me to have insurance. My parents still refuse to make use of insurance, including Medicare despite the fact they are eligible. I didn’t have prescription coverage until very recently, so I paid more for prescriptions than I did for rent on a regular basis.
So yeah, go ahead and tell me how cold-hearted I am because Scott F. once more stated things better than I could. People can have absolutely terrible situations, yes. But is it my job to take care of them? No. Do I expect the rest of the country to pay for my care? Hell no. And quite honestly, if I pass this on to a child, I’ll plan to pay for his/her care for as long as I can. Because it was my choice to have a child with a high probability of X problem. That shouldn’t fall on anyone else’s shoulders except the father.
I think I should just hand out Scott F. cheerleader outfits and pom-poms. Hey Scott, what colors do you want?
Ask a liberal how much they think they should pay per month for health insurance. They can’t answer. They’ll pay for DISH, they’ll pay for their car ( and pay someone to wash it) and pay their car insurance ( which funny enough when I change jobs I don’t have to change that) but they don’t want to pay that which will KEEP THEM ALIVE AND ENJOYING LIFE. Why should it be free for anyone? ( and of course by FREE I mean the hard work of one person taken and given to another person who didn’t work for it.)
If i was at this speech I probably would have thrown my shoes!
Was Rep. Wilson’s comment made at the best time? No. Can I understand why he made it? Yes. I think that once again, we are seeing the result of people feeling that they are having legislation shoved down their throats, with no one listening to their (usually) reasonable objections. Obama can call these stupid prime-time speeches and town halls whenever he feels like it, and spout whatever sense or (usually) nonsense he wants to, without having to yield the floor to anyone. If someone disagrees, the only coverage they seem to get is “look at the crazy hater”, regardless of how rational and calm they are. A majority of citizens are clearly uncomfortable with ALL the reform bills circulating, but the only people who seem to care are the members of Congress who aren’t writing them. Should the insurance companies be better regulated? Yes, many of them clearly engage in morally and legally dubious practices, and citizens deserve to be protected from such abuses. Medical costs should be brought lower, and can be through one simple thing that none of the bills (as far as I know) address: TORT REFORM.
Introducing more costs doesn’t bring down spending, cutting excess (in every sense) does. Think you’ll automatically get cancer/whatever disease coverage via the government? They will do cost/benefit analysis just as the insurance companies do, only instead of lifetime maximums getting in the way, it will be how much more time the treatment will buy you versus the cost. Either way, some panel somewhere will be deciding whether or not you get treated, but I trust the insurance companies more than I trust the government. I say that as the child of a government employee, and the sister of a former Hill worker. There are a lot of good people who work for the Feds, but there is a ton of red tape and crap that often keeps said people from doing what needs to (and should be) done.
I’m too tired to be eloquent. *waves Scott F. banner instead*
Pearce for Senate, 2010. I promise to be the crazy hater ALL THE TIME.
Ani – while I feel your pain that does not mean that the government take over of insurance is a going to solve anything. I don’t think anyone, including Scott F, would argue that the health insurance industry is perfect. I definitely believe that some reform needs to happen; tort reform, possibly some type of co-op thing, regulations that would keep insurances from dropping patients when they get sick, etc. If we allow the government to jump in I guarantee the price will be double what they are quoting and care would slowly erode but once they get involved we will be stuck with them. Can anyone name one agency or program of any signifance that the governement has canceled or disolved because they are ineffective or to costly? I can’t
the look on pelosi’s face at the end.. LOL!
OK, the comment back there by TheIrish is awesome. Awesome.
Ani, of course there needs to be reform in the health insurance industry. But universal health care is not going to help anything. In fact, I expect that you would see much more instances of cancers going untreated because universal health care will lead to rationing. It isn’t going to make the immediate care better just because it doesn’t need to be paid for. (Or paid for out of one’s own pocket, necessarily…it gets paid out of someone else’s pocket, whether they want to or not.) If you read 99% of what is available about the situations in Canada and England, the actual health care there is much worse. Even if you need to see a specialist right away, too bad. It’s a long wait. I have family there in England who have all experienced this first hand. Not only that, but the rate of technological advances in the medical field is a snail’s pace compared to the US. Without such advances, cancer treatment will never get better, no matter if you can afford it or not. So yeah, the current system is broken. But Obamacare is only going to make things much, much worse.
There’s no doubt its got to be fixed….the problem is the lame half-assed solution we are being handed in such a high horse way.
IMHO its got a huge corruption angle and it is ripe for it all thru the whole thing as it is presented now. We already know how welfare does not work like it was intended. And now there is the illegal alien angle. I don’t care who gets health care or insurance AS LONG AS THEY PULL THEIR WEIGHT. Pay your taxes and then get coverage/care. Come here thru the legal channels and THEN sign up to see if you qualify for it. But hard working folks should NOT shoulder the cost of this fiasco. Drug companies and doctors will get their money, one way or another, but it will cost us….the shrinking middle class.
People with pre-existing conditions should definitely be covered and be able to get care. Will they, under this plan? I doubt it. The people this whole thing matters the most to will get shoved to the side….and greed will take over. That, and apathy. The people who sat in that building last night are already golden for their health care/insurance. The rest of us, like Granny used to say, will have to “root, hog, or die”.
Sorry this is a bit long, how it adds something to the discussion.
jenn: Good on ya, I have no problem with legal immigrants, I believe most people against illegal immigration feel the same. As long as you follow the rules I am glad you are here, join the party.
I personally feel that the outburst was inappropriate in that setting, I would prefer that we have more tact and class then that, but that said I believe it is obvious that it was not premeditated, it was a heat of the moment outburst.
I believe that virtually everyone agrees that our health care system has problems, but I believe that we can take some rather simple steps to fix the vast majority of the problems. I believe the bulk of them are outlined in the article by the founder of whole foods in the WSJ, he has implemented most of them and seen them work. If you haven’t read it you really should.
Trusting the government to fix and run healthcare is like hiring a guy who did an incompetent job installing siding on your house to repair your roof. The federal government’s programs are virtually all rife with waste, corruption, and inefficiency, this is really who you want your life depending on?
One hilarious thing was watching Axelrod lastnight claiming the federal government could do nothing about the states not allowing citizens to purchase out of state insurance, obviously he has never heard of the Commerce Clause of the Constitution, which is ironic because it is under the pretense of that clause along with Necessary and Proper Clause that the federal government has seized most of the power/authority it now wields, so according to Axelrod the federal government doesn’t have the authority that is EXPLICITLY granted it in the Constitution, yet does have the authority to completely remake our current healthcare system. Anyone other than me think the dems are being evasive because they would rather take over than simply fix the problems?
Scott F.: The only difference is that once the fed program is the only program, which logic says it will become, you won’t be able to take your money somewhere else, when a business mistreats you you can go elsewhere, when the government mistreats you you have very few options.
fallingstar: I wholeheartedly agree, it gives me hope to see so many people with the commonsense that seems to be lacking everywhere else in our country.
Ani: It is a sure sign of a weak intellect/argument that when someone disagrees with you that your first instinct is violence or threats. As a person with high cholesterol( which I can no longer afford my pills for, since I DID lose my insurance ) and risk factors for diabetes, I have a VERY real risk of healthy problems in the near and distant future, but I would never demand that you or anyone else to pay for my bills, it is my responsibility to work hard and dig myself back out, if I have an emergency I will go to the hospital with faith that they will obey federal law and treat me, and I will be responsible for the bill, no one else. If I use force to take money from anyone else to pay my bills it would make me a thief, and if I have anyone else, including the government, do the same I would still be a thief. And if you can’t afford your treatment costs how can you expect the government to be able to, with only the money you give them? The entire point of insurance is that you start paying when healthy and the relatively small payments you make over time, along with others, more than cover the costs when someone gets sick, it wouldn’t be fair under that system to require insurance to cover already sick people, that would drive up the costs, effectively forcing other members to pay for your bills. I believe that as long as you have a single cent(outside basic need for basic shelter and food) you have NO right to expect anyone else to pay a cent to help you, quite literally bankruptcy, if it wipes out your savings that is unfortunate but far more fair that it effecting my savings. I am not saying that we should allow people to needlessly die, but we can eliminate most of the problems without infringing on anyone’s rights(business or individual), with simple changes, we could have a very real, very large impact, once we have done that we could then look rationally for the best way to take care of those in real need. With personal freedom comes personal responsibility.
AllyKat:I personally disagree about more regulation, if they are violating the law prosecute them, I think more competition would solve the problem(about the only thing I agree with Obama on), but it needs to be fair competition, which a government program can’t be no matter how hard they claim otherwise.
I was relieved that instead of the eloquent convincing speech everyone was predicting would turn public opinion, he got up and reiterated the same things the dems have been saying for months, in fact I think the way he was dismissive of the public concerns was similar to the insults of Pelosi and Reid, I doubt he made any gains in the public perception.
Anyone who doesn’t believe the public option will take over, needs to look at a few facts, employers that don’t offer insurance are going to be fined 8% of payroll, 8% is less than they currently pay for insurance, if they know they can drop the plan, pay less for the fine, and their employees will be able to get the public option what do you think they are going to do? And he can claim all he wants that the public option will be self sustaining but once there is a significant portion of the population dependent on the program then when the program becomes unsustainable they will have to fund it, they won’t be able to allow it to fail because of the crisis it would cause, so they will subsidize it. Look at the MASSIVE miscalculation of the cost for medicare, the estimate for 1990: $12B, actual cost: $107B, 9 times what they estimated, if the actual cost of obamacare is only 2 times the estimate it will devastate our economy, in our current financial state we cannot afford that.
Our government is consistently, year after year, spending more than it receives in taxes, putting us in more and more debt, and they seemingly have no plan or intention to pay it off, anyone can see that that can not be sustained. How we are allowing our elected officials to walk us into the hell of certain economic collapse is beyond me, and once our economy tanks health care will be the least of our worries.
We can all think of someone we know who’s been diagnosed with cancer or another life-threatening ailment. We all can also think of someone we know who’s been vigorously rogered by an insurance company. But as was pointed out above:
1. When an insurance company screws you over, there are still options and you still have recourse. If it’s the government sneering “put out or get out”, you…put out. Period.
2. Life is hard. There is no government agency, no regulation, no amendment or bill that is ever, ever going to make it perfect or even completely fair. If I get cancer, well, that’s horrible. It’s unfair. It’s tragic, and it’s sad. BUT PAYING FOR IT ISN’T ANYONE ELSE’S RESPONSIBILITY, and claiming otherwise is ridiculous.
3. As angry as the entire debate makes me, I feel truly sad for people who think that forcing the rest of us to pay the government for their healthcare is going to make everything all right. I feel terrible foreboding for the letdown they’re going to feel when they do, in fact, get shuffled to the end of the line because their treatment will cost more than they’re “worth” to the bureaucrats who happen to have the power of life and death over them. It will happen. Count on it.
4. Curse and threaten Scott F. all you want; he’s no doubt had worse and can take it. But bear in mind that he only stated, in his usual eloquent way, what most of us believe. You also might want to keep in mind that neither he nor any of us gave you cancer nor denied you treatment so it actually isn’t our fault oh my God.
Steelem – “If you read 99% of what is available about the situations in Canada and England, the actual health care there is much worse. Even if you need to see a specialist right away, too bad. It’s a long wait.”
Where is this 99% coming from? Is this the same kind of stuff as the Republican politican who said that if Stephen Hawking had to rely on the NHS, he would be dead? Shame he didn’t check with Stephen Hawking, who said that he owes his life to the NHS. If you need to see a specialist, you see one, how do I know? because I have, and members of my family have, and friends of mine have. Can I just clarify something, if Ani says that they have been screwed over, it is only thier opinion and everyone else is just fine, but if your familty say that they’ve been screwed over by the UK system, apparently, that just proves it, you need no other evidence!
Shame on you, Ani.
In the lottery of life you hit the jackpot.
You were born in a time of great knowledge and technology. Had you been born 50 years ago, you’d be breathing dirt right now. I’m allowed to say that with complete flippancy because I should be snoring away in a grave right next to you.
But it’s not just the time we were born into. You don’t think there are people in dirt pits in upper Sudan right now WISHING they had your problems? You’re sitting in the middle of a vast open country, perfectly at liberty to seek any life saving treatment you can read about on a dirt cheap internet connection.
And you’re miffed that you have to spend money?
Honey, there’s a field full of ghosts near Bunker Hill and another outside Gettysburg of men who paid for you to be born into a society which values the rights of the individual. Check out the crosses lined up in Belgium and Normandy, those guys paid so that you could have your choice of independant hospitals, that your doctor could go to college, that a pharmaceutical company could traipse through the jungles of Southern Nowheresburg to find your cancer drug. There’s a ton of scientists who devoted their entire lives to making your treatment possible and a whole group of investors who paid for all that research.
But all that should be free to you, right?
Your first round of chemo wasn’t free, neither was your third. Somebody always pays.
Think you got it hard? In the 15 hours since you posted that rant, at least 50 people (with equally hard lives) read your blurb and sighed. That’s life, no one has it easy. We all spend every damn day dodging the flaming hail and brimstone from above.
So instead of grumping about it, get on with getting on.
A health insurance policy isn’t a golden ticket which gets you free Zofran and a chocolate factory tour. It’s a bet you place, rolling the dice that your future health costs remain small enough to be balanced by your monthly investment.
Insurance is a gamble, not a guarantee.
You don’t have the right to drain my resources, either by forcing me to pay higher premiums or pickpocketing me in the form of taxation. I have my own family to look after, my own copays, my own bills which insurance won’t touch.
You can only rob Peter to pay Paul until Peter blows a gasket and slugs you in the nose. Pete’s got his boxing gloves on.
Harsh? Yep. Selfish? Purposefully. Cruel? C’est la vie.
Thanks, Simon, love ya. *smooch*
“This was probably Voldemor…er, the President’s insidious plan all along.”
“Because as we know, once the government is involved, it becomes their responsibility to tell us what to do ‘for our own good’.”
That’s why Obama is Grindelwald, not Voldemort.
There are 3-5 BILLION people in the world who do not have, and never will have, access to anything even resembling the American health care system. Kids die from starvation and dirty water. And people in the USA bitch because someone else wouldn’t pay to keep their relative alive with some obscure treatment? Boo hoo. Sell everything you own! Go into debt! Contact every local charity you can find. Geez… don’t waste your energy blaming the insurance company and throwing yourself a pity party… find a damn way!!!
I know someone who pays approx $40 per month for her health insurance. Her husband’s insurance is free through his company, but doesn’t cover family members. She complains. “It’s so expensive, and I have to pay a $10 copay for prescriptions.” WAAAAHHH. Of course she is an Obamatron. They also have three laptops, HD cable, internet, etc. But $40/month for health insurance? Gasp.
When my husband lost his job a couple of years ago, we had three choices… go without coverage, pay $900/month for COBRA, or find something on our own. I added up our known expenses (about $300 for my RX and scheduled care), and found a catastrophic-coverage plan for approx $200 per month for the two of us. Everything else was out-of-pocket. For that time, while my husband was out of work, we were paying $500-600/month for our health care. Do I want pity? Hell no. I’m just saying that we took responsibility for our own situation. It can be done!! Just prioritize… Lower the thermostat in the winter and wear a sweater, there’s about $10 per month. TiVO service? There’s another $10. Isn’t your health worth more than deluxe sneakers? HD TV Cable? Internet service? World of Warcraft subscription? Air conditioning? IT SHOULD BE!!!! My husband and I also have a safety net. You know, cash in the bank to cover unexpected expenses, like health care, NOT candy and clothes.
I do feel bad for people in the USA and around the world who TRULY cannot afford to keep their family members alive. I give plenty to charities that help those folks. I am not going to lose any sleep over them, though, or deny myself the best care I can buy, because that wouldn’t help them. I just thank God every day that I was born in a fortunate time and place. And I pray that our government will not kill it for those of us who do take responsibility for our own lives.
Thanks for letting me rant
Minnow – I love you, but in the sisterly way
My husband often says that in the USA we are entitled to “Life, Liberty and the PURSUIT of Happiness” We have a land of opportunity here. There is always a way. We are entitled to the PURSUIT of happiness. How we get there is in our own hands.
And this is a bit belated, but I want to give out my thoughts and prayers to you on this 8th year anniversary attack on the USA. We will not falter, we will not fail.
Why is there even such a thing as health insurance? What if everyone actually just PAID for the care they needed and let the market adjust itself? Doctors didn’t become greedy until they saw how much they can milk from insurance companies, and lawyers didn’t sue doctors & big pharma until they saw how much malpractice insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies would shell out. Big pharma would not charge such exorbitant prices because they wouldn’t have to pay out billions of dollars every time two people experience some diarrhea from a drug that benefits millions of others.
Do we have food insurance so that we don’t go hungry? Do we have apparel insurance so that we don’t run around naked? Aren’t these fundamental rights as well?
And if you truly can’t pay for medical care even in a fairly-priced environment? There will always be people who will be willing to help you out. Americans are the most charitable people on earth.
Before anyone thinks I’m an uninformed simpleton, I’ve been running my husband’s medical practice for twenty years and I’ve given this some thought. We are completely beholden to Medicare and Medi-Cal, but it is ABSOLUTELY wasteful. Our patients make us fill out paperwork for motorized wheelchairs because they know Medicare will pay for it. Then once they get the wheelchair, which costs thousands, they leave it in their yards to rot because “it’s too hard to use.” And Medi-Cal? There are people on Medi-Cal who get regular pedicures but balk at a $3.00 drug co-payment.
It’s just human nature–if you don’t have to pay for it, you don’t value it. OTOH, if you charge $300 for a colonscopy while someone else down the street charges $200, guess who’s going to get the business? This is what will keep medical prices reasonable–when doctors & hospitals have to VIE for your business.
As for Joe Wilson–It was all OK until he apologized.
“Joe should have thrown his shoe at the president. Democrats like that kind of thing afterall.”
That comment just destroyed any counter a liberal might have to Joe Wilson’s remark.
Scone you can blame the administration from WWII that enacted that and in later years the people who helped to make the cost even more intrusive by limiting your choices like HMO. Oh Ted Kennedy was the person who helped form the HMO’s and look how efficient they are today.
Aleric, yes. I think FDR is one of the worst things to have happened to America. And people like Teddy Kennedy, who never earned an honest dollar in his pathetic life, try to assuage their “guilt” of being born rich by championing the poor–on the backs of those who actually contribute to society.
As I’ve pointed out in previous posts to other topics, it all boils down to force.
Nobody but nobody has the right to initiate force against someone else and confiscate part of his earnings for “charity”. Force is ONLY justified when used in self-defense, and ONLY against the person or group who initiated aggression against you.
If John Doe doesn’t wish to pay for your health care, he is not to blame when you get sick and go without. His wanting to keep his own earnings is NOT an initiation of aggression against you. Thus you have no right to threaten force against him for the purpose of paying for your health coverage.
YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO FORCE SOMEONE ELSE TO CARE FOR YOU. Period.
There is a world of difference between “please help me” and “you will help me”. For those of you with the “you will help me” attitude: You can lay there and slowly die from the cancer eating away at your organs.
For those of you so filled with “compassion” and “love”, then give give give until your heart’s content. Just don’t expect me to.
I love you, scone.
Ani – These sick, selfish people will only understand when it happens to them. Their tune will certainly change then and they will be begging the government or anyone else for help. I wish you and your family the best. FYI, I pay for my insurance and STILL can’t get the care I need.
@ BB
Please read Jenny’s post above, especially the 3rd paragraph beginning with the words “Just prioritize”. Seriously, I’ve had my own steep medical bills, that are completely paid in full now mind you. My husband and I are both students now. We live comfortably, but we save, save, save. We are frugal, and we take care of our health. Instead of cable T.V., we get our regular dr. and dental visits. Instead of expensive high-tech gizmos and gadgets like many of our fellow students blow money on, we pay our (mostly mine) medical bills down, just like all our other bills, one month at a time. I’m healthy, and so is my husband, thank God. At some point in 99.9% of everyone’s life, something unexpected will happen, quite often to their health, but in the end, I pay MY OWN bills, and YOU pay YOURS. Life can suck.
While I’m sort of on the subject, my husband worked his butt off to save up money for us to go to college. It’s really a joke though, when the government takes a 1/3 of your check. How are you supposed to put away money for college? The more you make, the more they take, and it’s about to get a whole lot worse. That 1/3 of my husband’s check that COULD have gone toward our college savings went toward social welfare programs that are already proven failures, and now we’re about to see even MORE programs that enable people to leech off the system.
Spare us, BB. Did you bother to read Minnow’s post? The one in which she made it clear that SHE DOES UNDERSTAND? And what makes you think none of the rest of us have had loved ones who got sick or died?
No matter how fervent the emotions churning about at the moment, they don’t change the fact that your medical care is not my responsibility. No. No, it really, truly isn’t. It’s not a question of selfishness. It’s a question of logistics, and of personal responsibility. If you can’t wrap your mind around that, there’s no point in discussing this with you.
But Beige, OBVIOUSLY if this had REALLY HAPPENED TO US, we wouold come to the exact same conclusion. Because personal responsibility is lame as far as health is concerned, and obviously everyone who doesn’t want the government to pay for their healthcare is some sort of ivory tower brat who spends every evening rolling around in piles of money while smoking cigars and tossing nickels at the unwashed masses. So either we agree, or we just HAVE NEVER HAD A SIMILAR EXPERIENCE EVER.
Huh, Pearce? I couldn’t read that–my big old Monopoly-style tophat keeps falling down over my eyes.
Sigh…Blast and damn. Now I’ve got to have Jeeves shoo those pesky poor lepers off the doorstep again.
BB, aren’t there any charities you can apply, to? Last year I was diagnosed with a rare bone marrow failure disease. My doctor put me on an IV drug at the start of this year, and because I hadn’t met my deductible, my out of pocket expense was something like 3,000 dollars per IV treatment, which is more that I make in a month. It ended up being covered by a private charity, called NORD.
Same thing when I got sick and was hospitalized about two years ago with acute renal failure. It was pretty bad, in fact I was originally misdiagnosed as chronic (that changed when the damn things started up again two months later). Plus I also developed gallstones. We’re talking a day in the ICU, and about two weeks in the hospital. At that time I had no insurance. I applied to the hospital’s compassionate care program and most of my bills (about 80,000 dollars worth) were written off to charity.
These weren’t government run programs. The hospital’s was possible because of private donors, same with NORD.
Wow, wander away for a few days…
BB – I understand, I just don’t care. It’s not my responsibility to care. The government already forces me to ‘care’ about a whole range of crap I don’t care about by forcibly removing a portion of my check and signing it over to other people without my consent, so I’m not exactly enthusiastic about expanding the pool of people we’re ‘helping’.
Ani – Congratulations, you’ve survived cancer. That officially puts your health care above about 80% of the planet. It would indeed suck if you had to declare bankruptcy, but they didn’t exactly ‘let you die’ as you claimed they do to so many or you wouldn’t be around to complain about it would you? Sounds like the system works, as it’s designed to keep you alive.
Oh my, Beige, what a bother. And I need to replace my monocle before the hundred dollar bill fight I was planning this evening.
This has nothing to do with anything, but in the event no one has posted this already:
http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/9/12/633883785683044760-michelleobama.jpg
OK, I’ve been reading you guys for a while (stopped for a week as my internet died), but you are now officially my favorite celebrity gossip/people being idiot blog. You read Ace of Spades. Respect +100.