Back in October 2006 when presidential hopeful John McCain was still pretending to be a moderate to appeal to the young ‘uns, he had this to say to students at Iowa State about the military’s longstanding Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy:
We have to have the most effective and professional military that we can possibly obtain. I listen to people like General Colin Powell, Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and literally every military leader that I know. And they testified before Congress that they felt the “don‘t ask, don‘t tell” policy was the most appropriate way to conduct ourselves in the military … And I understand the opposition to it, and I‘ve had these debates and discussions, but the day that the leadership of the military comes to me and says, Senator, we ought to change the policy, then I think we ought to consider seriously changing it because those leaders in the military are the ones we give the responsibility to.
Well, that day arrived yesterday, when Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Admiral Michael Mullen called repealing DADT “the right thing to do.” So what is McCain’s current position on gays in the military? Not quite so moderate anymore:
“At this moment of immense hardship for our armed services, we should not be seeking to overturn the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy,” he said bluntly, before describing it as “imperfect but effective.”
So much for chain of command.
If I may take a moment to grandstand, Sen. McCain doesn’t seem to appreciate that there are gays in the military whose “immense hardship” he can’t even imagine. Right now, all over the world, gay men and women are fighting to protect our country from inside a closet. And to date, I haven’t heard of a single tactical error committed because some guy was too distracted checking out his fellow soldier’s package.
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My only problem with overturning DADT would be the logistics of it all. They’d have to figure out how to handle berthing, the heads (bathrooms), base housing, benefits for domestic partners, heck maybe even uniforms for all we know. Oh, and what about all the gay people the military kicked out since DADT went into effect? If they come back in the military you bet your sweet bippy they’re gonna want back pay and benefits. That ain’t gonna be cheap. I also think they’d have to institute some pretty hard core zero-tolerance programs regarding fraternization, sexual harassment, and God only knows what else. They already have a lot of that but it’ll have to go to 11.
Of course, “but it’s difficult to do” isn’t a good excuse for not doing something that’s right. DADT should be overturned — civil rights issues aside, the military has lost SO MANY good men and women, men and women that they NEED — interpreters, IT specialists, intel, etc. — simply because of their sexual orientation. I just think they have to be really, really careful about it and don’t rush into it. It could take awhile for gays to be fully integrated back into defense force. Sadly we learned from the gay marriage movement that “patience” isn’t exactly a strong point with some people.
I have no idea why Sen. McCain flip flopped on this issue — other than the fact that he’s a politician, and they change their minds like they change underwear.
first off, I’m a veteran. If mixing heterosexuals & homosexuals is AOK then why not mix heterosexuals & heterosexuals? I’m talking about men & women. Think of the ease of co-ed showers & barracks and everything else. Seriously why is one ok and one not?
DADT never should have been implemented in the first place. Same with women in combat & on ships (remember the carrier cruise where 7 women got pregnant & like 4 were married to men NOT on the boat?) and all this other PC stuff. The US military is the best in the world at breaking things and killing people; how will this make it better? It won’t, but it will make some gays happier and I guess that’s what counts. Why not put it to a vote of military personnel?
If you don’t like it too bad. Join the Peace Corps and tell us how tough it is.
McCain looks bad on TV. He refused to ever take the gloves off against Obama.
Time to get rid of him. He had his chance.
All I can say is “What Ronin said”. Except for the part about being a veteran. I’m not one, just married to one.
This is a weird issue. I wouldn’t want to be roomies with a guy I wasn’t romantically involved with, so why would I want to room with a girl who likes girls? (I am not opposed to being friends with hypothetical girl or guy, but being friends and sharing intimate personal space are very different things.) I think it could be very uncomfortable for all involved, and that is just sleeping quarters. CMS and Ronin both make interesting, valid points. While I am not necessarily against women/gays in the military, accommodating both is tricky and can cause major problems. You can’t just throw either into the mix and expect things to magically work out.
Better to take a little more time and do it right than rush and do it wrong.
First, let me apologize for having gotten into the habit of double-posting. Sorry.
Secondly, I’ll say this: McCain has zero credibility with me anymore, period, on ANY ISSUE WHATSOEVER. The one and only reason I don’t support having his ass kicked by a large gang of conservative voters is because of his military service. He threw us under the bus, he threw Palin under the bus, he threw everything we hoped for and believed in under the bus. I don’t care if he now comes out (heh) in favor of this or that or the other thing, or against all of the above. McCain can suck it. And you can take that however you like.
Beige ( & everyone else)
You’re right McCain can suck it. He’s just trying to score political points. He’s worthless and as proven here he’s a hypocrite too.
It’s not going to be hard. It’ll be fine. If the gays controlled themselves while they were under don’t ask don’t tell policy, they probably wouldn’t do anything even if their sexuality became public knowledge. I’ve known plenty straight soldiers that will grab someone’s ass as a prank. If they’re committed to serving this country, I guarantee they’ll keep that as their first priority.
P.S. Palin shoulda been thrown under a bus. She’s a retard. We don’t need a dumb broad who doesn’t know basic history in charge.
OMG, that is one disturbing picture. I can’t even think what McCain would be doing that warranted the leaning side hug and closed eyes.
I can understand if people change their mind on a issue. But come out and say “I changed my mind because….”. That said, I never wanted McCain to win, I was a Romney girl.
There’s a party line that will never, ever die, because it’s just so easy to keep repeating. No evidence, nothing cited–just an ad hominem attack on a person you hate because she’s conservative. And while I’m up: “dumb broad”? The HELL? Even if I granted some lack of knowledge on “basic history” on Palin’s part, I’d STILL rather have that, than some swaggering pinkie-dick Chicago mobster who doesn’t know history OR economics, and thinks nobody else does either.
It’s funny how every coupla years there’s a new incarnation of McCain. I personally liked the moderate guy from the late 90s. I actually kinda wanted *that* McCain to be president. :\
Hey, Beige? I kind of love you. Just so you know. You pretty much live in my mind, and say exactly what I’m thinking, only way better than I ever could say it.
retard? yeah, that is a great line for Palin. Especially since she has a Downs baby.
And McCain, he can just go away. What he did during the campaign was idiotic. He cannot make up his mind and the Republicans need a more conservative guy than him. He plays both sides.
As far as the DADT, it was implemented under Clinton, shockingly enough. If they can do the job, then I am all for it. However, as the wife of a combat vet, I have to say what other perks are they now going to want? My husband thinks this PC crap has got to go away. Stress cards, sensitivity classes? For the Army? It is a volunteer army, so if you do not like it, then don’t join.
And Beige, I love you more with each post.
Aww. I finna bake y’all a pie. A big old pie, made of flour and fruit and MIXED WITH MY TEARS BECAUSE DAMMIT I HOPE OBAMA ROTS IN HELL and John “NE winds = liberal ideology” McCain can go with him and hold the Solarcaine.
Sorry. Thank you, CMS2004.
Ummm…guys? We’re not supposed to criticize McCain. Remember? This is a right-wing blog where Republicans can do no wrong, and we protest every time a Republican is accused of hypocrisy. [/sarc]
I see how it is; Beige gets all the love AND he gets it by quoting me. But I am the new guy. I’d be upset if I wasn’t a retarded anti-choice NEO CON chicken hawk homophobe. Right Saad?
Beige is a chick, dude. With boobs and EVERYTHING.
Otherwise, carry on.
Oh Ronin, don’t be jealous, everyone loves Beige. But if you work hard, follow the Deceiver and write clever and witty comments, one day you too might receive our love.
A chick? Wow! maybe I am F—ing retarded! (to quote Rahm).
I’ll try to be clever but it’s harder than it looks!
I may be a conservative bible reading, gun toting Republican, but even I will call out the rights hypocracy. John McCain reeks of hypocracy, but I voted for him anyways because Obamma is just. plain. scary!
Is there anyone who thinks, even for a second, that even one conservative voted for McCain because they thought he was THE guy? Please. Choosing between McCain and Obama was like choosing whether to have one eye gouged out, or both. Neither option looks good, but with one eye, you can still drive and you don’t have to get a dog or a cane.
Beige,
Liberals think that all the time,in fact they think McCain is conservative that’s what scares me. Nice eye gouge analogy. I just bought some hay from a farmer with 1 eye ( no patch or anything) and I just shivered. eeeehhhh. ( or however you type it)
Two things of note:
In the words of Ralphie May, “If you are offended by the word retarded, you’re not retarded.” Much like many words have changed their meanings over time, retarded is now considered by most to be a word to describe someone acting in a manner that makes them look stupid. Perhaps, like the word “gay” being changed to “ghey” to show that the speaker means “stupid” or *GASP* “retarded” the word retarded also needs a one letter change to indicate that we are NOT mocking the mentally challenged.
Second: For God’s sake, ISRAEL allows gays in the military. ISRAEL people.
@MildlyAmused: I propose “retarted”, which is how it’s often rendered on YouTube comments.
@Beige I like it. Not only does it distance itself from the original word, it’s also an intellectual dig at the people of YouTube. Brilliant!
Ratify this, stat.
Mildly Amused, you beat me to the Isreal reference.
If the joint chiefs are for it then I support their findings. They are the professionals who have dedicated their lives to our defense. If we can’t trust their judgement we are in real trouble.
From my point of view as an active duty Army captain, the policy should stay roughly where it is, perhaps modified to make the investigation of accusations require a higher standard of proof to get started. And I say this as someone who knows gays in the military without feeling the need to narc on them. My objection is similar to AllyKat’s and Ronin’s in that I think that it’s just as wrong to force a girl to live with or shower in front of a lesbian as it is to force her to shower in front of a man (or the same situation with the genders reversed). However, what people don’t know won’t hurt them.
But whatever. It’s not something that keeps me up at night one way or another. What I really wanted to talk about was this remark from Holly Won’t:”If I may take a moment to grandstand, Sen. McCain doesn’t seem to appreciate that there are gays in the military whose “immense hardship” he can’t even imagine.”
Now, I’m not a McCain fan, but are you f@#$ing kidding me?!?!? Five years getting tortured in Hanoi, but he can’t imagine the “immense hardship” that someone’s going through because they’re in the military and can’t tell anyone they’re gay? Trust me, a year or so at a time in Iraq or Afghanistan doesn’t compare to what Senator McCain went through. Come on. Please try to think a little before grandstanding.
Holly, you should do a poll of military people, asking if they wanted gays in the military(in an open mannner, at least). If you think that they would be in favor of getting rid of “Don’t ask, Don’t tell,” and allowing openly gay people into the military, I bet you’d be in for a surprise. I guarantee they would like it just how it is right now. Of course it would have to be an anonymous poll, since no one likes homophobes…
I have no illusions about the military, trust me. My uncle is a retired Marine lieutenant colonel, I know how that poll would turn out. But since when is the military a democracy? I thought a direct order from the Joint Chiefs of Staff overruled any sort of discomfort an individual might feel about what they’re being told to do. Or am I misunderstanding the chain of command?
As far as the showering issue goes, that is very easily solved by taking a cue from gyms all over the country and putting up dividers to make stalls. Major non-issue.
Also, as is pointed out in this interesting article from the BBC;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8493888.stm
…the British military had the same opinions the current American military does. But when push came to shove, they realized that it didn’t really matter. And repealing “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” isn’t going to turn into “Define Your Sexual Orientation” on this questionnaire. It’ll merely keep the homosexuals in the military that WANT/FEEL comfortable telling to do so without fear of dismissal.
I enjoyed the post of the ever wavering Mr. McCain, a true fashion follower. But the ending, the comment about those enjoying ‘hardships’ in the military because of homosexuality This is simply odd, in fact, perhaps a product of fashion as well. The concept is terribly weak, as in the US Military it is rare anyone is persecuted due to sexual preference. Yes, no one should be pushing their sexuality anyhow in the Armed Services. Their private existence is their own matter. “Don’t ask don’t tell” was a very flawed conception provided by the completely unethical Clintons, who once made it their policy to lie about genocide in Rwanda. They exploited those with political ambitions who advocate for homosexual issues – promising them all, but ran away when the poll data proved problematic. The irony is, yes, sexuality in this manner can be distracting in the Armed Forces, where life hangs in the balance. But to generically suggest, that some are being ‘oppressed’ without any evidence or basis, is irresponsible for the author of this blog. It simply isn’t the case. Keeping one’s sexuality a private matter is perfectly acceptable – understandable in this environment.
I’d like to know how anyone, regardless of gender or sexual identity, who can’t handle a raised eyebrow or offsides remark, can be expected to handle COMBAT. This isn’t a defense of gay-bashing, but I’m also not defining “gay-bashing” as “anything a gay person doesn’t like or feel deliriously happy about”. What someone thinks privately of a comrade-in-arms is that person’s business, not a matter of policy–until and unless there’s actual persecution. The idea that jokes or facial expressions can be equated to vicious beatings is beyond ridiculous. It’s the military, not the Girl Scouts. Even if rules or policies change, minds won’t necessarily follow suit. You cannot MAKE people like or accept something–whether that “something” is a religion, a sexual orientation, or the new couch.